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Barkblue

Divided We Stand?

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He is playing cards with someone elses hand just now, I am behind him and can easily see us getting past St.Mirren. Getting to tenth place is all that matters this season.

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9 hours ago, Barkblue said:

It was a cameo no one expected and one few thought was a good idea, so surely this master of Houdini like escapology should be offered the job full time? Well… two capitulations in the final two games of the special guest star appearance should have set alarm bells ringing and when the man himself initially turned down the offer to prolong his stay those bells should have become a blaring klaxon. But with no ‘plan B’ (a feature of John Nelms' time at the helm) and a change of heart from the end of season superhero, the stopgap became a permanent fixture. 

 

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Wasn't Jack Ross the plan B ???

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1 hour ago, Chomp my root said:

Wasn't Jack Ross the plan B ???

He was actually Plan A, was he not?

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1 hour ago, Chomp my root said:

Wasn't Jack Ross the plan B ???

 

53 minutes ago, WeighorstsWang said:

He was actually Plan A, was he not?

You beat me to it WW.

Either way it was a shambles. 

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2 hours ago, Chomp my root said:

Wasn't Jack Ross the plan B ???

I thought BB was referring to the fact that none of the managers appointed by Nelms has seemed capable of changing tactics / formation during a game i.e. no plan B when it all went to fck.

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1 hour ago, WeighorstsWang said:

He was actually Plan A, was he not?

I thought NM was the first choice, knocked it back so they chased Jack Ross who knocked it back and NM had a change of heart. Might be wrong, it happens but its all ancient history now, we have our new Messiah. :angel:

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6 minutes ago, Chomp my root said:

I thought NM was the first choice, knocked it back so they chased Jack Ross who knocked it back and NM had a change of heart. Might be wrong, it happens but its all ancient history now, we have our new Messiah. 

Whatever the pecking order of choice was, we came worst off (as usual) and now have the unenviable task of simultaneously fighting for our premier status while patching together a new squad. If JM can pull it off (fnarr fnarr) then he will have more than earned the Messiah status that the long list of predecessors that BB mentioned all failed miserably to achieve in the top tier. 

 

 

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Does Macintyre have a football vision apart from kicking the ball as long as you possibly can into the opposition half?

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12 minutes ago, Iain T Campbell said:

Does Macintyre have a football vision apart from kicking the ball as long as you possibly can into the opposition half?

That’s not what I’ve been watching. Yes it’s more direct than NM but most of our play now works down the wings from full back to left/right midfielder in a four or a five.

first we had the “ tippy tappy” comments from posters regarding NM, which over exaggerated his style, we now we get “ kicking the ball as long as you can”  for JM.

I don’t get the desire to over exaggerate the way managers play just so people can lambast them. 😐 

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28 minutes ago, Valentke said:

That’s not what I’ve been watching. Yes it’s more direct than NM but most of our play now works down the wings from full back to left/right midfielder in a four or a five.

first we had the “ tippy tappy” comments from posters regarding NM, which over exaggerated his style, we now we get “ kicking the ball as long as you can”  for JM.

I don’t get the desire to over exaggerate the way managers play just so people can lambast them. 😐 

I guess it depends on how much you want to get yourself worked up over a player/manager/CEO etc.

Its much more fun if you add a few bells and whistles to your argument, if you put "so called" in front of whoever your chosen target is, it helps get the point across how truly awful they are too. :lol: 

 

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4 hours ago, Barkblue said:

Either way it was a shambles. 

5🌟s

Edited by Dondeh
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8 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

Does Macintyre have a football vision apart from kicking the ball as long as you possibly can into the opposition half?

In many ways it's comments like this that is exactly what the blog is all about.

Edited by Barkblue

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The division was probably at its worst around 2012/13. The resentment towards DFCSS, Gardiner and Brown made reading online posts painful to read at times.

FPS coming in and appointing Hartley brought some sanity back to the club and things have been ok since. 

Arguments over McIntyre are a picnic compared to what went on before.

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9 hours ago, Cobra said:

 

FPS coming in and appointing Hartley brought some sanity back to the club and things have been ok since

Agree with that first bit - not sure things have been ok since however

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22 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

Does Macintyre have a football vision apart from kicking the ball as long as you possibly can into the opposition half?

My concern exactly and from what ive seen so far I have major doubts he does . 

I may sound as though I want the guy to fail but nothing can be further from the truth im just saying what I see so far but will get behind him and the lads on the park as I always do and hope my fears are unfounded .

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14 hours ago, Barkblue said:

In many ways it's comments like this that is exactly what the blog is all about.

So are people to simply not voice an opinion based on what they have seen so far  in fear of being accused of wanting the new manager to fail ? 

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5 hours ago, DBDU said:

So are people to simply not voice an opinion based on what they have seen so far  in fear of being accused of wanting the new manager to fail ? 

Fair comment mate. Apologies to @Iain T Campbell my reply wasn't meant that way but I can see why it would be taken as such. 

Personally I don't think that is the style of football we are seeing at all but as ever football is all about opinions and seldom is one completely right and the other completely wrong.

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On 06/01/2019 at 15:42, Iain T Campbell said:

Does Macintyre have a football vision apart from kicking the ball as long as you possibly can into the opposition half?

Unbelievable comment. I take it you liked the 4 or 5 passes between goalkeeper and centre half then lose the ball as it went into midfield! NMc served some of the worst performances I have seen in years at Dens trying to play a brand of football that players were not capable of at his level.

The same accusation was always made of Tommy Wright at the fermers, played us off the park last week with players who new their jobs and a team that played to their strengths. 

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On 07/01/2019 at 22:51, BigG said:

Unbelievable comment. I take it you liked the 4 or 5 passes between goalkeeper and centre half then lose the ball as it went into midfield! NMc served some of the worst performances I have seen in years at Dens trying to play a brand of football that players were not capable of at his level.

The same accusation was always made of Tommy Wright at the fermers, played us off the park last week with players who new their jobs and a team that played to their strengths. 

We all have different opinions on how football should be played. I am in favour of the passing game and I believe what you are doing of the ball is just as important as what you do when you are in possession of it. Why have our teams been so unsuccessful in Europe for many years now? Rangers under Smith and MacLeish were beaten by teams we had never heard of. Aberdeen, St. Johnstone, Hearts, and Hibs have all flopped against very average European sides. The Aberdeen team of the 70's would have taken the Burnley team that dumped Aberdeen out this year apart. Why is that? Because of the type of football we play. It leaves us technically inferior to even average European teams and our football intelligence when it comes to running off the ball is way behind their ability. I have been watching football since the sixties and I have seen the gradual deterioration in Scottish football. It has all come about through the change to smaller leagues with manager's under pressure to keep their teams up in either the Premier or the Championship. The majority of fans want bigger leagues but at the moment greed reigns. Stewart Milne at Aberdeen and some others want their two home games against the OF and fail to see the bigger picture.

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8 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

We all have different opinions on how football should be played. I am in favour of the passing game and I believe what you are doing of the ball is just as important as what you do when you are in possession of it. Why have our teams been so unsuccessful in Europe for many years now? Rangers under Smith and MacLeish were beaten by teams we had never heard of. Aberdeen, St. Johnstone, Hearts, and Hibs have all flopped against very average European sides. The Aberdeen team of the 70's would have taken the Burnley team that dumped Aberdeen out this year apart. Why is that? Because of the type of football we play. It leaves us technically inferior to even average European teams and our football intelligence when it comes to running off the ball is way behind their ability. I have been watching football since the sixties and I have seen the gradual deterioration in Scottish football. It has all come about through the change to smaller leagues with manager's under pressure to keep their teams up in either the Premier or the Championship. The majority of fans want bigger leagues but at the moment greed reigns. Stewart Milne at Aberdeen and some others want their two home games against the OF and fail to see the bigger picture.

I agree 100% .

There isn't a great team that has ever existed that haven't been able to retain the ball an play it around starting from the back .

Even members of our own great title winning side are on record as saying they were so successful both at home and in Europe because they could play from the back and build it from there and were all comfortable in keeping possession .

As you say its no coincidence that the scrapping mentality installed in our teams due to the cut throat nature of our tight top division has over the years now resulted in the standard of football suffering in favour of a more battling kind of style , which will only get you so far .  

I think under Mcann the results were very disappointing nobody is hiding from that fact and that HAD to change as we were obviously not in a good position in the league .

Would Mcann been able to have turned it around ?? Well we will never know but I personally think with the return to Ralph at LB which In turn allowed a restructure of the team with KM being able to be deployed as the striker that we signed him to be would have resulted in improved results . I also feel that long term he had as playing the style of passing game that would have improved us and gave us a real identity which could have in turh attracted players the likes of Kamara & Hendry who the previous manager clearly had in mind of the type he wanted around the place. 

 

What is not up for debate is that NMc had a football philosophy and a clear idea of how the game should be played and for me its one I agreed with . 

If you do not have the ball and can not keep the ball  then I'm afraid , long term , you will not improve !

Lumping the ball back to front and scrapping may well result in a short term reprieve but as a long term strategy its 2 steps backward as far as I'm concerned . 

As you say we need to look at the bigger picture as sometimes it actually is more about just short term results .

Edited by DBDU
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21 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

We all have different opinions on how football should be played. I am in favour of the passing game and I believe what you are doing of the ball is just as important as what you do when you are in possession of it. Why have our teams been so unsuccessful in Europe for many years now? Rangers under Smith and MacLeish were beaten by teams we had never heard of. Aberdeen, St. Johnstone, Hearts, and Hibs have all flopped against very average European sides. The Aberdeen team of the 70's would have taken the Burnley team that dumped Aberdeen out this year apart. Why is that? Because of the type of football we play. It leaves us technically inferior to even average European teams and our football intelligence when it comes to running off the ball is way behind their ability. I have been watching football since the sixties and I have seen the gradual deterioration in Scottish football. It has all come about through the change to smaller leagues with manager's under pressure to keep their teams up in either the Premier or the Championship. The majority of fans want bigger leagues but at the moment greed reigns. Stewart Milne at Aberdeen and some others want their two home games against the OF and fail to see the bigger picture.

I also like the passing game but much prefer the way Liverpool play the game at the moment. My point being Liverpool have 3 of the fastest forwards in world football, they could play any team in the world on the counter attack as that’s the way the manager has structured the team. Dundee under NMc didn’t have players who could retain possession, make a pass or have any pace in the team, we also never played with width or had a player with guile. Under NMc we had the worst record in EUROPE🤷🏻‍♂️, we went nearly 4 games without a shot on goal😳. Is this really the type of football you like Dundee FC to play? 

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19 hours ago, DBDU said:

Lumping the ball back to front and scrapping may well result in a short term reprieve but as a long term strategy its 2 steps backward as far as I'm concerned . 

As you say we need to look at the bigger picture as sometimes it actually is more about just short term results .

At this moment, we need a short-term reprieve and all the fancy football philosophies are unlikely to give us that.  

Let's get ourselves safe first, then we can start to think about the future vision.  Alternatively, we can try out the new philosophy in the Championship. 

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3 hours ago, HK Blues said:

At this moment, we need a short-term reprieve and all the fancy football philosophies are unlikely to give us that.  

Let's get ourselves safe first, then we can start to think about the future vision.  Alternatively, we can try out the new philosophy in the Championship. 

Agree but its a tricky one and I'm not sure we're going to see a massive change in the summer, I can see the club reacting against the 'fancy' stuff of the last 2 managers and being happy with a more basic approach with a more experienced manager. Give it a good season in the SPL with the next campaign (please) and we'll all be clamouring for sexier football again. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Chomp my root said:

Agree but its a tricky one and I'm not sure we're going to see a massive change in the summer, I can see the club reacting against the 'fancy' stuff of the last 2 managers and being happy with a more basic approach with a more experienced manager. Give it a good season in the SPL with the next campaign (please) and we'll all be clamouring for sexier football again. :lol:

Yep...memories will be short and we will all be shouting for the Barcelona-esque style we were treated to under McCann!

P.S. I wasn't being entirely serious in the above! 😁

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