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Meant to add that as well as the positive move re Norrie Price’s addition to the Society Board it was also really good to see DSA Chariman Kenny Ross at the meeting.

Kenny lives out of town, is not long home from a long haul holiday and also had the DSA 5 a sides to take care of. Full marks for both your attendance and input Kenny.

Bob Hynd deserves a note of thanks also as a Club Director for being present, taking questions from the floor and accumulating feedback for his fellow Club Directors.

There are more questions than answers at this stage but hopefully that’s something the Club can change with the help of the Supporters Society. 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's good reading posts from current and non DFCSS members. I agree, that FPS can acquire the shares via a different route and DFCSS could in writing and loosen the language in the articles rather than give away their shares would probably be the sensible option. However, I would like to what FPS have to say on the matter, before coming to a conclusion.

Reading both forums, Dark Blues and Dundee mad, it is interesting that supporters don't trust DFCSS and/or FPS, and I come back to the points I made in another post about us supporters not trusting anyone, doesn't matter who it is. 

DFCSS have had their issues in the past; minutes going missing (Apparently still are), fans rep on board to make sure admin 2 didn't happen, and it did. According to some, they came no where near the total required (£250k) during admin 2.  A lot of supporters don't trust DFCSS, hence the low numbers now. 

FPS have had their issues; lack of communication with supporters and lack of communication until recently with DFCSS seem to be the key ones that I have picked out.  

As stated, both really need to work together for the good of the club. DFCSS need to go back to the Dee4life roots and start putting money into the club (they might do already), FPS really need to up their game ie: communication with supporters (Nelms to do a quarterly 15min video on the website, newsletters etc...), surely that isn't too much to ask? 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, GregTeamDee said:

It's good reading posts from current and non DFCSS members. I agree, that FPS can acquire the shares via a different route and DFCSS could in writing and loosen the language in the articles rather than give away their shares would probably be the sensible option. However, I would like to what FPS have to say on the matter, before coming to a conclusion.

Reading both forums, Dark Blues and Dundee mad, it is interesting that supporters don't trust DFCSS and/or FPS, and I come back to the points I made in another post about us supporters not trusting anyone, doesn't matter who it is. 

DFCSS have had their issues in the past; minutes going missing (Apparently still are), fans rep on board to make sure admin 2 didn't happen, and it did. According to some, they came no where near the total required (£250k) during admin 2.  A lot of supporters don't trust DFCSS, hence the low numbers now. 

FPS have had their issues; lack of communication with supporters and lack of communication until recently with DFCSS seem to be the key ones that I have picked out.  

As stated, both really need to work together for the good of the club. DFCSS need to go back to the Dee4life roots and start putting money into the club (they might do already), FPS really need to up their game ie: communication with supporters (Nelms to do a quarterly 15min video on the website, newsletters etc...), surely that isn't too much to ask? 

 

 

Well said. What I'm struggling with is:- 

  • Why do FPS/Keyes continue to pour money into a loss making business?. 
  • When will it end?.
  • Why does Keyes persevere with Nelms who has clearly failed and cost him $millions?. 
Edited by Dondeh

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9 minutes ago, GregTeamDee said:

 

DFCSS have had their issues in the past; minutes going missing (Apparently still are), fans rep on board to make sure admin 2 didn't happen, and it did. According to some, they came no where near the total required (£250k) during admin 2.  A lot of supporters don't trust DFCSS, hence the low numbers now. 

There's a fair bit of bullsh*t in that paragraph......you must have some very 'dodgy' advisors among the "some".  ;)  

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5 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

There's a fair bit of bullsh*t in that paragraph......you must have some very 'dodgy' advisors among the "some".  ;)  

In my opinion some bits quoted in the paragraph is not bulls**t .   Just my opinion though.

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14 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

There's a fair bit of bullsh*t in that paragraph......you must have some very 'dodgy' advisors among the "some".  ;)  

Not according to others on another forum, who were around during that time, take a look (http://boards.footymad.net/showthread.php?t=38234331&page=13). 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dondeh said:

Well said. What I'm struggling with is:- 

  • Why do FPS/Keyes continue to pour money into a loss making business?. 
  • When will it end?.
  • Why does Keyes persevere with Nelms who has clearly failed and cost him £millions. 

Possibly because:   

1. He needs DFC as a premier club anchor tenant for the stadium.   

2. It will end when the stadium development is completed and DFC are an anchor tenant

3. Mr Nelms is possibly here to manage the development. Property development may be his background because it certantly ain't soccer.  Does anybody here know his background?

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13 minutes ago, Dondeh said:

Well said. What I'm struggling with is:- 

  • Why do FPS/Keyes continue to pour money into a loss making business?. 
  • When will it end?.
  • Why does Keyes persevere with Nelms who has clearly failed and cost him $millions?. 

Keyes is playing the long game and has the finances to cover short-term losses.

As long as the stadium goes ahead there is no reason to worry about "the end".

Nelms is a good friend and business partner of Keyes. Nelms is the trusted man on the ground who oversees their Dundee project. Running a provincial football club is incredibly difficult especially for someone fairly new to the country. While fans might be disillusioned with Nelms and call him a failure I'm pretty sure Keyes will see things differently. We've become the only top flight in the city for the first time in 60 years and re-established ourselves in the league. It's quite possible Keyes thinks Nelms is doing a decent job and doesn't blame him for the various setbacks we've suffered in recent years.

There is also the fact that Americans generally see failure as a necessary part of progress while we tend to see failure as terminal and if you fail at something you become labelled "a failure" and are incapable of learning from that and changing for the better.

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4 minutes ago, Cookie said:

Possibly because:   

1. He needs DFC as a premier club anchor tenant for the stadium.   

2. It will end when the stadium development is completed and DFC are an anchor tenant

3. Mr Nelms is possibly here to manage the development. Property development may be his background because it certantly ain't soccer.  Does anybody here know his background?

Booooom. 

Exactly my thoughts. 

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11 minutes ago, GregTeamDee said:

Not according to others on another forum, who were around during that time, take a look (http://boards.footymad.net/showthread.php?t=38234331&page=13). 

 

Nothing whatsoever against the other forum, there's a hell of a lot of good Dee's on there. I do remember though that there were a lot of claims made during Admin 2 and a lot, probably the majority, of the claims never came to pass. I trusted one or two during that period from the forum and I think maybe their views and judgements were a bit clouded for some reason. A lot of the stuff was politically motivated I think. Further down the line it's clear that things weren't as they were made out to be. As I say nothing against the forum but I stopped using it a long time ago due to the politics and in fighting. 

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Good to see guys joining/rejoining the Society. Couldn't make the meeting unfortunately but messaged my initial views. Cheers to those providing feedback from the meeting and shame on anyone who managed to extract some drama from not sharing.

Just tossing it out there but if you're feeling generous, set up a direct debit for the Society, myself and some others carried on paying the tenner a month when the Gold membership stopped, its not a huge amount of money but it all helps the Society.

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4 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Nothing whatsoever against the other forum, there's a hell of a lot of good Dee's on there. I do remember though that there were a lot of claims made during Admin 2 and a lot, probably the majority, of the claims never came to pass. I trusted one or two during that period from the forum and I think maybe their views and judgements were a bit clouded for some reason. A lot of the stuff was politically motivated I think. Further down the line it's clear that things weren't as they were made out to be. As I say nothing against the forum but I stopped using it a long time ago due to the politics and in fighting. 

Absolutely, I take everything on all forums with a pinch of salt, however do like reading everyones views. However there are still mistrusts within the fan base for both sides, what can be done to resolve that? Imo, better communication between the two and make it public. 

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8 minutes ago, GregTeamDee said:

Absolutely, I take everything on all forums with a pinch of salt, however do like reading everyones views. However there are still mistrusts within the fan base for both sides, what can be done to resolve that? Imo, better communication between the two and make it public. 

Communication is the key I think. There will a lot of stuff that simply, for one reason or another, can't be made public. The society and the supporters in general need to be able to understand that and reasons why to be able to move on. Past scars may have healed over but the pain we endured is still etched in our memories. We need to understand things from the owners perspective and they need to be open whilst understanding our concerns. 

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13 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Past scars may have healed over but the pain we endured is still etched in our memories. We need to understand things from the owners perspective and they need to be open whilst understanding our concerns. 

Exactly this.

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1 hour ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

 As I say nothing against the forum but I stopped using it a long time ago due to the politics and in fighting. 

I stopped using it because if you don't hate DFCSS and / or you think Hartley was a better manage than Brown you're targeted by the clique and just get abuse.

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2 hours ago, GregTeamDee said:

Not according to others on another forum, who were around during that time, take a look (http://boards.footymad.net/showthread.php?t=38234331&page=13). 

 

Aye, I'm well aware of the other forum, stopped using it for similar reasons as the Rev. I wasn't just 'around during that time' though, hence my factual statement that I know there is indeed a fair bit of bulls**t in those claims.

Reassuring to see some have still not given up on their 'crusades'....consistent, if somewhat misguided & inaccurate.

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2 hours ago, Thegen65 said:

In my opinion some bits quoted in the paragraph is not bulls**t .   Just my opinion though.

Ah, but then what I said was "a fair bit". And that "fair bit" is not opinion, it's fact. :)  

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36 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

Ah, but then what I said was "a fair bit". And that "fair bit" is not opinion, it's fact. :)  

So tell the fans then? This tit for tat argument (if thats the right word), gets no where & hasnt for over 10 years. What is your side of these claims? As on the other forum, they said it was ‘fact’. 

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5 hours ago, Bridee said:

Also just signed up again.
Gave it up,when the club nicked DFCTV of the society,which was a tenner a month at that time.
Definitely some concerning stuff going on just now. Thanks to all the guys who have given updates.

 

The club didn’t nick DFCTV 

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4 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

I've actually just received another email from the fake DFCSS account.

Hi Rev,

It is worrying that you have just received another email from a fake DFCSS account. 

I suggest that you send an email to [email protected] advising about you today receiving an email from a fake DFCSS account. 

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5 hours ago, WoodStein said:

I saw the original post yesterday evening & thought about posting to say that Ian Baird (Society chairman) had said he'd issue a summary to DFCSS members on monday, it would likely end up on here & being more widely discussed....then forgot to do it. No secrecy (though Islay wound a few up, I see ;)), just leaving it to the right people to issue the information....but non-members should be aware there's always that element of 'need for confidentiality' from the Club Board (not just the current one), that makes open communication a bit more difficult for the Society board, at times. 

My views on the AGM are similar to Dayster & Scottg....routine AGM business first (nothing controversial & minutes always get posted later on dee4life.com), good to see Norrie voted onto DFCSS Board (still 2 more vanacies, I think), then second half was the Q&A on the 'discussion paper'. It was good to see a couple of 'old heads' from the DFCSS Board there (even Dayster counts as 'old' now!), and to hear some background to why those key "entrenched rights" were established in the way they were, within the club's Articles of Association (AoA), rather than in a shareholder agreement (see Dayster's post).   

  • The Club's desire to acquire 75% or above of shares is apparently related to DBH group accounting/taxation, and seems reasonably sensible to me.....but as mentioned on Friday, they can achieve this % of DFC shares via the Ordinary Shares, by a couple of different routes....there is no need for them to acquire the key 'A' Shares which DFCSS hold exclusively...and which protect the "entrenched rights". I don't think these 'A' Shares should ever be sold, and that alone is why we as fans need to keep DFCSS alive.  
  • I think DFCSS should assist the Club Board with anything that might hinder progress with the Camperdown funding/development, but as Dayster indicates, DFCSS just need to confirm (in writing) they have no objection to DFC moving from Dens to Camperdown & no objection to sharing that stadium with the Arabs (if DBH persuade the Arabs to move, at any time now or in the future). The "right to veto" of those 2 items does not need to be amended in the AoA....and it's crucial we keep those "entrenched rights" vetos in place, for future change of DFC ownership.

I agree that DFC/DBH need to meet with DFCSS & present more details of their plans, they must realise that by not opening up a bit, they generate an air of doubt & mistrust. I think the DFCSS Board are taking the right course with this, and hope the Club responds constructively.  

Hi WoodStein,

 I was not trying to wind up people by giving the impression that everything discussed at yesterday’s AGM was secret. I was not sure if it was OK to post on this forum things that were discussed yesterday when all DFCSS members were due to receive emails in the next couple of days regarding what was discussed at both the AGM and Q&A. 

I could not believe that several hours after this topic had been set up nobody had posted a comment. I replied to try stimulate some posts which for me personally has sadly backfired. 

When I was a member of Downfield Golf Club and attended the annual financial meeting and AGM it was announced at the beginning of the meeting that the meeting was private and should not be reported to the press. There were no Internet forums back then. 

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8 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

Renewed my membership, I'm very concerned that FPS might be up to something not beneficial to our club.

 

8 hours ago, Boba Fett said:

Snap..

Make that three.

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18 minutes ago, Islaydarkblue said:

What did they do then. 

They cancelled the permission to screen the games. They owned the media rights and when DFCSS gave up their control of DFC to FPS they unfortunately gave up their entitlement to broadcast the games via their cameras.They also took control of all the equipment and technology. If this is wrong I'm sure Daystar will be able to correct my post.

 

 

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1 minute ago, BCram said:

They cancelled the permission to screen the games. They owned the media rights and when DFCSS gave up their control of DFC to FPS they unfortunately gave up their entitlement to broadcast the games via their cameras.They also took control of all the equipment and technology. If this is wrong I'm sure Daystar will be able to correct my post.

 

 

Did DFCSS not initially continue showing games after FPS took control?

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