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McCann Feels Guilty for the Players Who Lost Their Jobs.

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14 hours ago, Barkblue said:

I still think that Keyes and Nelms set the tone of finding players to sell on at a profit though and that it ultimately undid both Hartley and McCann.

Nelms I think is on record as saying that we've changed our recruitment policy so I think you're probably spot on with that comment. The likes of St Johnstone have littered their side with tried and tested journeymen and then added a few flair players and are out performing us every season. Maybe the penny has finally dropped.

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2 hours ago, Dblair said:

Thanks for that mate. Ando was once of my favourite players of that era. Great player with bags of ability. 

He sure was and in all honestly, probably had more natural ability than NM.

As Chomp mentioned above this should’ve helped him go on and have at least as successful a career as NM however, when it came to dedicating themselves to their profession, they were the complete opposite. Ando being more in the Chic Charnley mould as far as that was concerned! 

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5 hours ago, Spiritof62 said:

Nelms took a punt on NM based on a hunch.

It didn’t work out and it’s costing us big time.

I doubt any club will be interested in him for a managers position, probably he is best suited to media work.

Not what I heard.  JN/TK asked around at the time for advice on who would make a suitable appointment.  Just what the criteria for the appointment were or what boxes had to be ticked only they would know I would imagine.  Nothing to say that they took that advice if it was given.

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17 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Thanks for reminder about Ando. Seemed to be in the days when the players were doon the toon on a Saturday night, on an out out night as Micky Flanaghan calls them!

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On 04/02/2019 at 10:35, Wattie Rojas said:

He should apologize to the club and fans for making such an a**e of managing the club. The players will probably get clubs again. He probably won't.

Nabi is doing well in Greece, Henry is with Celtic, Kamara is with Rangers, Elton and Madianga will probably find other clubs and do well. Moussa was a target man who was being used as a striker, admittedly a grave mistake by McCann. He will flourish if used properly. Ralph is a find as is Kunsunga, so all in all McCann had an eye for a player, his shortcomings were trying to blend them into a potent unit that would win consistently. His achilles heel was getting his team to convert chances into goals. That was his undoing. The pity of it all we had a manager who cared for the club and who had a vision for the club and I think his biggest mistake was in not hiring a more experienced assistant. As far as his commitment to Dundee was concerned that was never a question.

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I’m sure there are plenty of people out there who have had a wee taste of what it may be like as a manager from boys through to amateur teams and everything in between.

When you bring a player in, you do it to improve your squad and it’s your opinion / your coaching teams opinion on that particular player. Some work out well and some don’t.

What I’ve found is that when you have one that isn’t going so well, you persevere and defend them all day long because the fact that they play in your team is a reflection on your judgement as a coach / manager. This is where NM falls into, his philosophy is to play attractive football, and the players he brought in were to play that style. Because it wasn’t working he wanted to give them every chance to do so without changing his philosophy. That’s the debate - do you go full Pep G and stick to your principles no matter what or change if it doesn’t work?

Maybe those players would work in a different set up, we never got the chance to see.

NM had the club and his playing ideology at the core of everything he done and every interview, podcast or public forum showed that. It didn’t work and we move on. It may be costly for the club but to question the man’s motives is well below par, for me.

I hope he does well somewhere, if he gets the right project and the right players his team would be good to watch.

Gowsers goal away to Motherwell is a wee insight into what NM can achieve.

Edited by SM1893
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1 hour ago, Iain T Campbell said:

Nabi is doing well in Greece, Henry is with Celtic, Kamara is with Rangers, Elton and Madianga will probably find other clubs and do well. Moussa was a target man who was being used as a striker, admittedly a grave mistake by McCann. He will flourish if used properly. Ralph is a find as is Kunsunga, so all in all McCann had an eye for a player, his shortcomings were trying to blend them into a potent unit that would win consistently. His achilles heel was getting his team to convert chances into goals. That was his undoing. The pity of it all we had a manager who cared for the club and who had a vision for the club and I think his biggest mistake was in not hiring a more experienced assistant. As far as his commitment to Dundee was concerned that was never a question.

Doubtless he signed some good players. He also signed some poor ones too. However I think his lack of man management, inability to sign a decent forward and especially his insistence on playing a ineffective system was his downfall.

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4 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Doubtless he signed some good players. He also signed some poor ones too. However I think his lack of man management, inability to sign a decent forward and especially his insistence on playing a ineffective system was his downfall.

Spot on imo. A great player who made an excellent contribution when on the field of play. I wish he had stuck to his gut instinct and taken the plaudits for keeping us up, then gone back to the studio.

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2 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

Nabi is doing well in Greece, Henry is with Celtic, Kamara is with Rangers, Elton and Madianga will probably find other clubs and do well. Moussa was a target man who was being used as a striker, admittedly a grave mistake by McCann. He will flourish if used properly. Ralph is a find as is Kunsunga, so all in all McCann had an eye for a player, his shortcomings were trying to blend them into a potent unit that would win consistently. His achilles heel was getting his team to convert chances into goals. That was his undoing. The pity of it all we had a manager who cared for the club and who had a vision for the club and I think his biggest mistake was in not hiring a more experienced assistant. As far as his commitment to Dundee was concerned that was never a question.

You raise fair points, I thought he brought in some great players although he did bring a LOT of new players. I was desperate for him to succeed, gutted he didn't but we move on. Football is cutthroat like that. Assuming it had gone as NM had hoped and he'd brought success to the club do you think he would have 'done a Fergie' and stayed with us for the next 20 years or moved on ?

Its not all black and white good guy/w**k stuff and while some of the anti NM stuff is cringe worthy, for whatever reason the mustard wasn't cut on his watch. 

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22 minutes ago, Valentke said:

Spot on imo. A great player who made an excellent contribution when on the field of play. I wish he had stuck to his gut instinct and taken the plaudits for keeping us up, then gone back to the studio.

I was one of the fans who was happy he was appointed permanent manager. Sad to say I was way wrong.

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15 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

I was one of the fans who was happy he was appointed permanent manager. Sad to say I was way wrong.

I'm not going to rewrite history, I was happy enough that he got the gig, loved him as a player and rated him as a pundit and after doing the necessary in the 'interim gig' he seemed to be a good bet for the 'big time'. Hey ho, onwards and hopefully upwards.

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3 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

Nabi is doing well in Greece, Henry is with Celtic, Kamara is with Rangers, Elton and Madianga will probably find other clubs and do well. Moussa was a target man who was being used as a striker, admittedly a grave mistake by McCann. He will flourish if used properly. Ralph is a find as is Kunsunga, so all in all McCann had an eye for a player, his shortcomings were trying to blend them into a potent unit that would win consistently. His achilles heel was getting his team to convert chances into goals. That was his undoing. The pity of it all we had a manager who cared for the club and who had a vision for the club and I think his biggest mistake was in not hiring a more experienced assistant. As far as his commitment to Dundee was concerned that was never a question.

I certainly agree re the point about a more experienced assistant....and I'd have thought our Board/JN would have seen that this would be helpful, in both supporting & challenging (constructively) NM's ideas. I couldn't see how Gartland could offer NM an alternative way of looking at things, with fairly limited experience himself.

Even looking at part-time 'old heads' (like Jeffries) after the first season might have been effective & avoided some of this season's issues.

It's water under the bridge now, though, but certainly his level of commitment & enthusiasm for the Club & his vision for it was always evident.  

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19 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

I certainly agree re the point about a more experienced assistant....and I'd have thought our Board/JN would have seen that this would be helpful, in both supporting & challenging (constructively) NM's ideas. I couldn't see how Gartland could offer NM an alternative way of looking at things, with fairly limited experience himself.

Even looking at part-time 'old heads' (like Jeffries) after the first season might have been effective & avoided some of this season's issues.

It's water under the bridge now, though, but certainly his level of commitment & enthusiasm for the Club & his vision for it was always evident.  

I'm putting this one down to hindsight. Its not like the 'old head/young head' route is the only one. I think quite rightly the manager was allowed to bring his guy in, it didn't work out and the Board changed things. Funnily enough, this time they did put their foot down on the assistant manager, just for very different reasons. :lol:

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9 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Nelms I think is on record as saying that we've changed our recruitment policy so I think you're probably spot on with that comment. The likes of St Johnstone have littered their side with tried and tested journeymen and then added a few flair players and are out performing us every season. Maybe the penny has finally dropped.

You're right Rev, he did and what's come after would suggest we are looking to be a little more pragmatic in out signings policy.

I've no issue with taking the occasional punt on a project but building a full squad of them is something I hope we never see again. 

Edited by Barkblue
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3 minutes ago, Barkblue said:

You're right Rev, he did and what's come after would suggest we are looking to be a little more pragmatic in out riggings policy.

I've no issue with taking the occasional punt on a project but building a full squad of them is something I hope we never see again. 

NM probably did try to move things too quickly, its easy to put that down to 'ego' which neatly ties it up in a bow. FPS were looking for the model of buying rough diamonds and polishing them to sell on.... It is history now and they seem to have got the message that that was maybe a bit naive. We're on to the next manager 'project' now, lets see how it pans out.

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8 hours ago, WoodStein said:

I certainly agree re the point about a more experienced assistant....and I'd have thought our Board/JN would have seen that this would be helpful, in both supporting & challenging (constructively) NM's ideas. I couldn't see how Gartland could offer NM an alternative way of looking at things, with fairly limited experience himself.

Even looking at part-time 'old heads' (like Jeffries) after the first season might have been effective & avoided some of this season's issues.

It's water under the bridge now, though, but certainly his level of commitment & enthusiasm for the Club & his vision for it was always evident.  

It’s an interesting one. Bobby robson said when he joined Barca as manager they tried to make him bring in a “Catalan” as his assistant. He said no way and wanted Mourinho. They quite rightly questioned him as to who this novice was but after basically telling them that if he didn’t get his man then the deal was off they gave in. And the rest as the say is history

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12 hours ago, Chomp my root said:

I'm putting this one down to hindsight. Its not like the 'old head/young head' route is the only one. I think quite rightly the manager was allowed to bring his guy in, it didn't work out and the Board changed things. 

Opinions (here, and in the stands) on NM's appointment were - and still are - varied, regarding his inexperience v his 'vision'/enthusiasm/tactical analysis etc....but I'm sure there was a lot more doubt expressed about his surprise choice of assistant. There was certainly plenty of debate on here about the pros & cons of having a more experienced assistant, so I don't think it's hindsight to suggest that it wasn't ideal to go the route he did. He did, though, explain the basis for his choice at the time, and generally (& perhaps some reluctantly) we accepted that, some with reservation.

There are, of course, cases where young (& inexperienced) managers have had success, without a 'mentor' type of assistant, and I agree there is no 'certain success' formula. 

As I said earlier, though....water under the bridge now.

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4 hours ago, Dblair said:

It’s an interesting one. Bobby robson said when he joined Barca as manager they tried to make him bring in a “Catalan” as his assistant. He said no way and wanted Mourinho. They quite rightly questioned him as to who this novice was but after basically telling them that if he didn’t get his man then the deal was off they gave in. And the rest as the say is history

The Robson/Mourinho situation was probably the best example of the 'inverse' of the 'young manager/experienced assistant' situation. Robson was a very astute & experienced manager, probably seen as classic 'old school' by the media....but still open to listening to (& while also coaching) a young, innovative coach.

The documentary about Robson's career had some fascinating bits from his Barca phase, with the young Mourinho absorbing Robson's experience & Robson listening intently to the young 'whippersnapper', tentatively suggesting how to change things.  

Cathro was (media view) going to be the new Mourinho, but perhaps not ready to be a strong enough leader....he's back coaching, as Nuno Espirito Santo's head coach at Wolves, and presumably doing well there. He may yet resurface in a managerial role....but sometimes, the best coaches are better remaining in that 'background' role.

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I well understand, that it's never gonna be said, that in NM, we found a manager, that was ...."Totally Great"

But nor do I believe, as some posters seemed fixated on-believing (& repeatedly saying) he was "Total Rubbish"

I may be wrong here, but I still believe in time to come (& if he choses)  NM could go be success as a manager.

But his period for learning/gaining the necessary managerial experience, should not have been with Dundee FC.

Hindsight of course is a grand thing. His faults & qualities have been well discussed & for me no need to detail.

And ironically (imo) some of his greatest "faults" in the right circumstances could well have been "his qualities"

Stubborness & an inability to listen to others, could also be described as total focus & self belief. But his lack of

"Real Hands-on Experience" at this level, showed up when with DFC...Not the place to learn his trade as Manager.

Rather late in the game (possible far too late) he seemed more open to accepting the help of a more experienced

Mentor. I was surprised, with what I saw his own level of intelligence, he did not appear to see, obvious benefit of

the assistance/support, of a more experienced, older coach, who had been through it all...I still wish him well:chaplin:

 

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6 hours ago, WoodStein said:

The Robson/Mourinho situation was probably the best example of the 'inverse' of the 'young manager/experienced assistant' situation. Robson was a very astute & experienced manager, probably seen as classic 'old school' by the media....but still open to listening to (& while also coaching) a young, innovative coach.

The documentary about Robson's career had some fascinating bits from his Barca phase, with the young Mourinho absorbing Robson's experience & Robson listening intently to the young 'whippersnapper', tentatively suggesting how to change things.  

Cathro was (media view) going to be the new Mourinho, but perhaps not ready to be a strong enough leader....he's back coaching, as Nuno Espirito Santo's head coach at Wolves, and presumably doing well there. He may yet resurface in a managerial role....but sometimes, the best coaches are better remaining in that 'background' role.

Think your last point is a good one, there’s plenty top class coaches who have failed in management. It’s a totally different set of skills that are required. McCann may fall into the good coach/poor manager category. From what I heard, he was a good coach and his training was always really good and enjoyable. Probably poor man management and a bit of naivety let him down in the end. 

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23 hours ago, Chomp my root said:

I'm not going to rewrite history, I was happy enough that he got the gig, loved him as a player and rated him as a pundit and after doing the necessary in the 'interim gig' he seemed to be a good bet for the 'big time'. Hey ho, onwards and hopefully upwards.

I too was delighted when NM agreed to take the job, and can you imagine if we didn’t get him,and somebody else had came in and made an a**e of it, how everybody would have been saying “ if only we had talked NM into taking the job, he has always been our saviour”. One of these things, didn’t work out, we move on, but I still think it was worth a try, and you can never fault his passion for the club, always be a hero to me, and I hope he does get another shot at management somewhere and don’t get all the name calling that is going on, boy did his best with a faulty plan.

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