Jump to content
The Dark Blues
Sign in to follow this  
Napper

Conspiracy Theory. With Absolutely No Proof.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Selling season books so early .. does it not smack of the tangerine hoards a couple of seasons ago when they were selling early? seems to me, it could be taken as a need for dosh ... especially when we have no idea what division we will be playing in next season.. like I say, no proof.. but, slightly worrying? why the need to start generating cash so early?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There might well be other reasons but Nelms said that McIntyre wants the season tickets sold early to help him make early progress with signings for next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we get relegated surely the board would have to decide if JM was the way forward for us or if to bring someone else in 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, gblue said:

If we get relegated surely the board would have to decide if JM was the way forward for us or if to bring someone else in 

I think Nelms made it pretty clear in Sunday's programme that McIntyre has done enough to keep his job regardless of whether we're relegated.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How can you make decisions about whom to sign for next season if we do not know which league we will be playing in. That means you would have to offer a player two sets of wages, one for playing in the Premier League and one if we get relegated to the Championship. 

In my opinion selling season tickets for next season two months before the end of the current league season is very strange. 

  • Like 1
  • Star Post 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, islaydarkblue said:

How can you make decisions about whom to sign for next season if we do not know which league we will be playing in. That means you would have to offer a player two sets of wages, one for playing in the Premier League and one if we get relegated to the Championship. 

In my opinion selling season tickets for next season two months before the end of the current league season is very strange. 

If a Queen of the South player is earning say £400 a week, Dundee can probably offer him £1k regardless of what league we're playing in. Even if we go down it's still a step up for the player and a decent chance of a Championship winner's medal and a return to the top flight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the concerns expressed about the number of ST sales for next season have been noticed by the board? I know it's only a forum but social media can wipe billions off the value of very media savvy companies. I've been very disappointed with the increasing pessimism in the supporters. IMO we should be getting right behind this team and the manager. I'm not blameless, I think we don't try hard enough as a team to stop the opposition from scoring goals, but I'm sure the only way out is to get behind them on match days

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BCram said:

I wonder if the concerns expressed about the number of ST sales for next season have been noticed by the board? I know it's only a forum but social media can wipe billions off the value of very media savvy companies. I've been very disappointed with the increasing pessimism in the supporters. IMO we should be getting right behind this team and the manager. I'm not blameless, I think we don't try hard enough as a team to stop the opposition from scoring goals, but I'm sure the only way out is to get behind them on match days

I think it's beyond the stage where better backing by fans would help, the players simply are not good enough. McIntyre brought in better than he had but in a difficult window his hands were a bit tied.

I'll say it again and I will keep on saying it our situation is entirely down to McCann's appointment, bring an experienced man in at that stage and we consolidate before trying stupid projects and implementing nonsense philosophies that no player will ever understand.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We’ve budgeted for top 6 again I would assume. There has been next to no income from the cups. Only a small amount from player sales. Crowds are lower than would be expected. We’ve had to pay off a manager and half his players plus pay for a whole new team in January.

I think it is safe to say the club will be making massive losses this year, much bigger than previously. This is clearly in my mind is an attempt to get fans to cover some of those losses. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Cobra said:

If a Queen of the South player is earning say £400 a week, Dundee can probably offer him £1k regardless of what league we're playing in. Even if we go down it's still a step up for the player and a decent chance of a Championship winner's medal and a return to the top flight.

Hi Cobra,

Suppose offer a Queen of the South player £1k per week (£50,000 per annum) and then we are relegated at the end of this season how are FPS going to balance the books for the year ending 31st May 2020 if they are still here. 

I realise that we will receive a parachute payment but crazy salaries being paid when we were last in the Championship resulted in Admin 2. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Edin_Dee said:

This is clearly in my mind is an attempt to get fans to cover some of those losses. 

Hi Edin-Dee, I think all the points you have made in your post are fair, and I agree with them all.

I'm no sure anyone would ever say that the financial backing FPS has been less than expected.

As you have said "they have budgeted for top six"  Not only has that not happened, we find we

are in a position, fighting to hold on to our place in the Premiership. This, as well as the other

points you have raised, (inc. poor performances & basically no points) are the reason (imo) for

the falling attendances And the resulting shortfall in income to the Club. There has to be a time,

when the Americans will say "enough is enough" The clumsy way this so called early ticket offer

has been announced, may be an indication that this time is drawing near. I have highlighted the

bit of your post, which I think makes that relevant point.

However, looking at the bigger picture (& maybe going a bit off track) ... I'f I've been reading this

right, it appears JN is happy with the progress being made under JM...(And maybe I am as well)

So the question is ... Is he finally the right man to lead us to the Top Six (definitely no this season)

We do need a period of stability (& hope)...For the FPS/BOD/ DFC/ FANS.  Any other views:chaplin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, islaydarkblue said:

Hi Cobra,

Suppose offer a Queen of the South player £1k per week (£50,000 per annum) and then we are relegated at the end of this season how are FPS going to balance the books for the year ending 31st May 2020 if they are still here. 

I realise that we will receive a parachute payment but crazy salaries being paid when we were last in the Championship resulted in Admin 2. 

 

There could be two wages on offer, clauses may also be in force for players we've got with wage reductions in the case of relegation, that's standard practice that teams like ourselves usually go for. We've also got a lot of players out of contract in the summer.

It'd be tough but I'm not losing any sleep over signing a Queen of the South player on a pre-contract. You'd think he'd be obtainable in either division.

  • Star Post 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, harry94 said:

There could be two wages on offer, clauses may also be in force for players we've got with wage reductions in the case of relegation, that's standard practice that teams like ourselves usually go for. We've also got a lot of players out of contract in the summer.

It'd be tough but I'm not losing any sleep over signing a Queen of the South player on a pre-contract. You'd think he'd be obtainable in either division.

Hi harry94,

In my original post I stated that there would have to be two contracts on the table depending on which league we were playing in next season.

Cobra seems to think that we could afford to pay a former Queen of the South player £1k per week even if we are playing in the Championship next season.

Financial suicide in my opinion even with a parachute payment of £1 Million.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Edin_Dee said:

I think it is safe to say the club will be making massive losses this year, much bigger than previously. This is clearly in my mind is an attempt to get fans to cover some of those losses. 

Selling 2019/20 STs before 31st May (end of current trading year) won't have any impact on the 2018/19 DFC Accounts, as those sales will not be included in the 2019/19 Profit & Loss Account.

Although some extra cash may be in the Club's bank account by 31st May, there will be an offsetting amount included in Short term Liabilities, for prepaid sales.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

Selling 2019/20 STs before 31st May (end of current trading year) won't have any impact on the 2018/19 DFC Accounts, as those sales will not be included in the 2019/19 Profit & Loss Account.

Although some extra cash may be in the Club's bank account by 31st May, there will be an offsetting amount included in Short term Liabilities, for prepaid sales.  

That's the point isn't it. There is no conspiracy. Pushing ST sales just brings in the cash earlier in the year. It looks as though the attempt to get people thinking about, and actually buying the ST's has generate entirely negative comments. I may be wrong but I have not read a single positive comment about the proposal.

I think the board would be well advised to review their proposal now that they see the problems that have been highlighted. I wonder if a deposit of say 20% could be used to secure the proposed price for the super early bird ST. The normal payment timescale could be applied, and the deposit could be applied to the ST that was available at the date when the balance was paid.

 There may not be much of a drop in the cash received by the club if they merely took 20% deposits. If only 20% of the normal renewals for this type of ticket is taken up it might mean that there could be a substantial drop in the number of supporters who buy at this price. They could buy at the next price level to get some form of reduced price but the danger is that they decide to go PATG. This would be a disaster.

I hope the board think again.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, BCram said:

That's the point isn't it. There is no conspiracy. Pushing ST sales just brings in the cash earlier in the year. It looks as though the attempt to get people thinking about, and actually buying the ST's has generate entirely negative comments. I may be wrong but I have not read a single positive comment about the proposal.

I think the board would be well advised to review their proposal now that they see the problems that have been highlighted. I wonder if a deposit of say 20% could be used to secure the proposed price for the super early bird ST. The normal payment timescale could be applied, and the deposit could be applied to the ST that was available at the date when the balance was paid.

 There may not be much of a drop in the cash received by the club if they merely took 20% deposits. If only 20% of the normal renewals for this type of ticket is taken up it might mean that there could be a substantial drop in the number of supporters who buy at this price. They could buy at the next price level to get some form of reduced price but the danger is that they decide to go PATG. This would be a disaster.

I hope the board think again.

 

I'll be paying at the gate next season when I can be bothered going along, didn't go today and didn't miss it at all.

The club's ticket pricing policy means they'll maybe get £150 unbudgeted from me next season rather than the £340 they could have had up front to use in their budget.

They have to think again or I can see 2,500 tops sales.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Prince Buster said:

I'll be paying at the gate next season when I can be bothered going along, didn't go today and didn't miss it at all.

The club's ticket pricing policy means they'll maybe get £150 unbudgeted from me next season rather than the £340 they could have had up front to use in their budget.

They have to think again or I can see 2,500 tops sales.

That was my concern too. 2500 ST's. Would be a disaster.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

I'll be paying at the gate next season when I can be bothered going along, didn't go today and didn't miss it at all.

The club's ticket pricing policy means they'll maybe get £150 unbudgeted from me next season rather than the £340 they could have had up front to use in their budget.

They have to think again or I can see 2,500 tops sales.

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm inclined to PATG next year even if they extend the £340 price. You're a 'repeat offender' for not buying a ST and then buckling, no judgements. :lol2: I'm late to the party but had a recent epithany and quite enjoying my potential 'freedom' on for size. I like to think I'll make 10 home games next season but we'll see, assuming we're in the top tier, I'll not be paying 30 quid a game and I'll be fitting the games round my life rather than the other way round. I'm a bit shocked, while you could maybe argue its been building with the crap results etc, its come as a bit of a surprise to me how quickly I've embraced it. I should probably thank FPS.

  • Funny 1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chomp my root said:

The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm inclined to PATG next year even if they extend the £340 price. You're a 'repeat offender' for not buying a ST and then buckling, no judgements.  I'm late to the party but had a recent epithany and quite enjoying my potential 'freedom' on for size. I like to think I'll make 10 home games next season but we'll see, assuming we're in the top tier, I'll not be paying 30 quid a game and I'll be fitting the games round my life rather than the other way round. I'm a bit shocked, while you could maybe argue its been building with the crap results etc, its come as a bit of a surprise to me how quickly I've embraced it. I should probably thank FPS.

I won't be buckling this time mate. I've now got a regular rehearsal every second Saturday too which is more important to me now than the sh**e football I've endured the last few seasons. I'd rather play sh**e music than watch sh**e football - changed days.

Like you it's been painless making this change so at least something 'good' has come from the FPS treatment of us - they've made the decision easy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

I won't be buckling this time mate. I've now got a regular rehearsal every second Saturday too which is more important to me now than the sh**e football I've endured the last few seasons. I'd rather play sh**e music than watch sh**e football - changed days.

Like you it's been painless making this change so at least something 'good' has come from the FPS treatment of us - they've made the decision easy.

Will this mean a decline in your posting on forums?

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, BCram said:

Will this mean a decline in your posting on forums?

Using Gedee as the yardstick, I'd say probably not. :lol2:

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Using Gedee as the yardstick, I'd say probably not:lol2:

If you & Prince gie me a howl, when you Twa Wanderin Musical Minstrels are (doing what you do) up in the hills, I'll try to fill in the slack for you.

I doubt if any ither posters will notice much difference, because awe oor forum posts are pretty similar. Awe three o' us haver a lot o' sh**e:chaplin:

(Hope you dont think I am being too forward lads, but I would not be at all embarrassed if you wished  to offer a small donation for this service)

PS Chomp, When I professed my affection for Prince (another post) it did not in anyway diminish my feelings for you. I've lots o love to give :wub:

 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, WoodStein said:

Selling 2019/20 STs before 31st May (end of current trading year) won't have any impact on the 2018/19 DFC Accounts, as those sales will not be included in the 2019/19 Profit & Loss Account.

Although some extra cash may be in the Club's bank account by 31st May, there will be an offsetting amount included in Short term Liabilities, for prepaid sales.  

No difference to the accounts but in terms of cash flow it does. Either Tim Keyes has to dip into his pocket to cover this seasons loses or they get the fans money early. This is perhaps Keyes saying he's not willing to keep covering the loses to the same extent. The proof will be in what next seasons budget looks like.

Edited by Edin_Dee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Edin_Dee said:

No difference to the accounts but in terms of cash flow it does. Either Tim Keyes has to dip into his pocket to cover this seasons loses or they get the fans money early. This is perhaps Keyes saying he's not willing to keep covering the loses to the same extent. The proof will be in what next seasons budget looks like.

Re cashflow, this is only a short-term 3-4 months potential cashflow benefit, at best, as all (more or less) of the ST income will be received by the start of the season, no matter when we start selling them. 

By selling the STs earlier, the Board might (if we 'comply' & buy earlier) have most of the ST sales figures before JM makes his final signings in the summer window, so yes, this may help them in finalising his budget.

Unless we muster enough points for 10th place, or survive playoffs, it seems likely (if forum members are representative of the wider fanbase) that ST sales are going to drop this summer. They may drop even if we stay up, of course. If we sell between 2,500-3,000 at an average of £300 (adult, concession), that's £750k-£900k. This figure is probably close to the potential operating loss for 2018/19, based on the last accounts....so (with no transfer income) we're likely to have a loss equivalent to around 20% of the annual turnover (£4.5m last season). If Keyes doesn't want to continue to cover that, JM's budget is going to be a very low one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing

    0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.