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Abdul Latif

Slept On It

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Why is italways us? I'm not wallowing in self-pity, I'm just wondering why are we always the fall guys? Throughout the years no matter who the manager or players are we get mugged by, and I'm not being disrespectful here, supposedly inferior opposition. United etc grind out ugly victories in games like last night. Why can't we?

We never seem to be comfy wearing the favourites tag.

Not having been at the match, and I refuse to read a match report today, i'm hoping it was just a bad day all round.

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'Grind out ugly victories'.

That's the difference between Hartley and other managers. He's naive as they come. Big and manky is good enough in Scotland. Their second goal could have been stopped with a foul at two stages. Likewise the first Aberdeen goal. Likewise the two united goals. Likewise the St. Johnstone goal. Likewise the Hearts second goal.

Hartley stuck in some bizarre ideal that playing 30 passes along the back line with no width and Harkins 60 yards back will win things.

It won't. You need to get your hands dirty, we must be a joy to play against. Press high up, job done.

Edited by blythswood
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You're lucky you weren't at the match. Ive just spent a lot of money going to 2 away games to watch absolute dross. The report will say we had 60/40 possession and twice the amount of shots. Reality is we were so slow and unpredictable we must have had the quietest away support in a long time. 4 full backs and 2 dev team midfielders on the bench is another real problem. ICT have 2 points from 15. Can see it now. Jules might miss a few games with his hammy. Low and Low will still be out. Ferry and Tank injured again.

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We had a real chance this season to make the later stages of this cup, that in itself could have brought in a lot of revenue from both crowds and tv money which then inturn would have helped the balance sheets and maybe allowed us to look at a signing or two of quality in the January window to push on but we have blown all that.

If Roberts/Tank are not going to walk away then its up to Hartley to manage them, coach them and get them playing otherwise we will continue to have no options bar holding midfielders, defenders or youth team players who are not ready.

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We had a real chance this season to make the later stages of this cup, that in itself could have brought in a lot of revenue from both crowds and tv money which then inturn would have helped the balance sheets and maybe allowed us to look at a signing or two of quality in the January window to push on but we have blown all that.

If Roberts/Tank are not going to walk away then its up to Hartley to manage them, coach them and get them playing otherwise we will continue to have no options bar holding midfielders, defenders or youth team players who are not ready.

Mourhinio couldnt manage those two

Cruel maybe but there not good enough bottom line....

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After sleeping on it too, my main points are -

To be fair, it was a tricky tie, as difficult as we could have got in that round other than Rangers at Ibrox, but a top 6 Premier side should not be losing 3-1 to a Third tier side after creating 20 chances and being at 1-1 with 5 minutes to go.

The result is not surprising sadly giving our general absolutely abysmal records in the major cups and at East End Park.

When will we learn to shut our mouths in the press? Twice since pre season going on about how important the cups are to us this season and we will be giving them our best shot as we want to do well in them and we get knocked out first round to a second division side before teams like our neighbours have even entered. Embarrassing to be honest.

Why are we creating the most chances a Dundee team has created in over a decade but putting next to none of them away? 19 attempts last night, 1 goal.

One striker injured equals no striker on the bench last two games therefore no attacking options to change things? Something far wrong there.

3 centre backs against a Division 2 side or 5 at the back if you like since our wing backs can't cross or play like Barca wing backs in an attacking sense? Back to basics please as another poster said last night.

Disappointing to see some posters having a pop at fellow fans on here and on a few Facebook fans pages last night for daring to be angry at last nights result. If we can't be p*ssed off after getting put out the first round of the cup to a team 2 divisions below us then I don't know when. Always seems to be a section of the support wanting to have a pop at fellow fans after abysmal results. I guess everyone deals with bad defeats differently.

It's only a game and we move on, this is true, but last nights result was a real sore one and sadly created deja vu as our club has been creating these kind of results in the cups and league year in year out for the 25 plus years that I've supported them.

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After sleeping on it too, my main points are -

To be fair, it was a tricky tie, as difficult as we could have got in that round other than Rangers at Ibrox, but a top 6 Premier side should not be losing 3-1 to a Third tier side after creating 20 chances and being at 1-1 with 5 minutes to go.

The result is not surprising sadly giving our general absolutely abysmal records in the major cups and at East End Park.

When will we learn to shut our mouths in the press? Twice since pre season going on about how important the cups are to us this season and we will be giving them our best shot as we want to do well in them and we get knocked out first round to a second division side before teams like our neighbours have even entered. Embarrassing to be honest.

Why are we creating the most chances a Dundee team has created in over a decade but putting next to none of them away? 19 attempts last night, 1 goal.

One striker injured equals no striker on the bench last two games therefore no attacking options to change things? Something far wrong there.

3 centre backs against a Division 2 side or 5 at the back if you like since our wing backs can't cross or play like Barca wing backs in an attacking sense? Back to basics please as another poster said last night.

Disappointing to see some posters having a pop at fellow fans on here and on a few Facebook fans pages last night for daring to be angry at last nights result. If we can't be p*ssed off after getting put out the first round of the cup to a team 2 divisions below us then I don't know when. Always seems to be a section of the support wanting to have a pop at fellow fans after abysmal results. I guess everyone deals with bad defeats differently.

It's only a game and we move on, this is true, but last nights result was a real sore one and sadly created deja vu as our club has been creating these kind of results in the cups and league year in year out for the 25 plus years that I've supported them.

Good post PRD.

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Still raging at that utter dross, tippy tappy sh#t served up. Looked like we had no clue at times what we should be doing with the ball

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Lot of reactionary stuff here.

It was a really bad night at the office. On another day their keeper doesn't have the game of his life, Scott Bain doesn't flog the first goal in 2 seasons and we don't hit the woodwork etc. These things happen, usually to us. From the minute the draw came out I had a bad feeling about this one.

That said, people have every right to be annoyed at the way things are going - I had convinced myself the squad had enough depth in it but we are seeing now that not only does it take a few injuries to reduce us to the bare bones but there are clearly players in the squad Hartley doesn't trust simply making up numbers.

I thought Si Ferry had a decent pre-season, neat and tidy if unspectacular and getting around the park a bit better (still gubbed after  an hour mind) so I can't understand why he's never getting on. Yes he's not as good as Low, Thommo, Ross, Harkins, Gowser but IMO it's surely preferable to play an inferior, like for like player in a familiar system than change the whole dynamic of the team to avoid playing him? Again Colquhoun would have been a better option, another solid pre-season performer if alittle raw - surely the best time to play him is in these cup ties?

I'd even prefer Konrad/Irvine/Julen pushed into the deeper midfield role than play a flat 3 at the back - it changes everything about our team and not for the better!

We can only hope Hartley has learned from this experiment - if it's something he works on there may be a place for it away to Celtic/Aberdeen - it wasn't pretty on Sat but Aberdeen were struggling to break us down the whole first half and hat frustration allowed us to (briefly) seize the upper hand early in the 2nd half - had we taken a chance then I'd have been confident we would see that game out!

It certainly isn't a formation to be playing against inferior sides like Dunfermline or any of the teams in our league outwith the fixtures I've mentioned - even then I'd prefer to just go for it in these games as A) it's what we do best and B) Our defenders aren't even nearly solid and consistent enough to make it worth the risk of letting Celtic etc come onto us.

It's nowhere near the time to be calling for Hartleys head or even going ballistic at him to be honest, the season is 6 games old, we are bedding in 6 or 7 first team players and more still into the overall squad. We are all frustrated after last night but lets get a few more games under our belt and see where we go. Caley should be a very winnable game despite our record against them. If we don't beat them, regardless of injuries and suspensions, then I'll start to get really worried but it is worth noting that after Saturday we will have played 4 of the 5 other top 6 sides from last season plus Hearts who are looking far stronger than I thought.

Our run of fixtures from now to November is promising indeed - we will obviously play Celtic away in September where any point is a bonus but outwith that our trickiest game looks like Ross County at home. We should be targeting 3 points in almost every other match.

Caley (H) - 3 points based on their start

Partick (A) - 3 points - happy hunting ground for us and another woeful start

Celtic (A) - 0 points - write this off - anything else is a bonus.

County (H) - 1 point - I'd take a point - bogey team and started well - 3 points not out of the question - neither is 0

Motherwell (H) - 3 points - go the sign over them, manager clueless, Pearson out, porr start.

Hamilton (A) - 3 points - Post Utd humping upswing over, back to reality for a poor Accies squad.

Kilmarnock (H) - 3 points - Worst team I've seen in the top flight

Caley (A) - 1 point - Same as County really - tricky away day but if there form keeps up this could just as easily be 3 points.

If you are not looking at those fixtures and slavering with anticipation then your letting last nights result get to you too much.

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Watch this. A *** awful bunch like Killie or St J will scratch and kick their way to the semis.

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I'd even prefer Konrad/Irvine/Julen pushed into the deeper midfield role than play a flat 3 at the back - it changes everything about our team and not for the better!

We can only hope Hartley has learned from this experiment - if it's something he works on there may be a place for it away to Celtic/Aberdeen - it wasn't pretty on Sat but Aberdeen were struggling to break us down the whole first half and hat frustration allowed us to (briefly) seize the upper hand early in the 2nd half - had we taken a chance then I'd have been confident we would see that game out!

It certainly isn't a formation to be playing against inferior sides like Dunfermline or any of the teams in our league outwith the fixtures I've mentioned - even then I'd prefer to just go for it in these games as A) it's what we do best and B) Our defenders aren't even nearly solid and consistent enough to make it worth the risk of letting Celtic etc come onto us.

The problem with trying an experiment in the cup is the damage cannot be undone. Dropping three points at Pittodrie doesn't define our season. Losing at Dunfermline does (to an extent).

I am certainly not calling for Hartley's head. I'm just struggling to understand why he thought an unfamiliar defensive system in a knockout game away from home to a team scoring goals for fun was a good idea.

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