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dee1893

Holt

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Has this boy played left back all his career so far or can he play other positions? He clearly is a decent player but in spl he just cant seem to cope with a pacey winger where as more often than not irvine was able too. Holt is a big lad that im sure can play left mid or even centre half if needed but irvine should be brought back in for left back in my opinion

Edited by dee1893

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He's just made a big step up and isn't even half a dozen games in the top league, seen enough to think he'll come good.

Not comparing him as a player at all but Jim Duffy looked like he'd never played before when he first came from Morton.....some players need a bit longer to settle.

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O Halloran, Hayes and Cardle have all had him on toast in the last 3 games. Last season a huge proportion of the goals we conceded come from out wide. It seems to be happening again this season. Doesn't matter if it's Dyer, Holt, Irvine, Mcginn - whoever has been our full back or wing back has tended to struggle. This indicates to me that it's not the player (exception of Dyer who was gash) but the formation. Our full backs are expected to provide all the attacking width and at the same time carry out their defensive duties which is a really hard ask. Our full backs need help. As soon as opposition have a winger with a full back overlapping (like Hayes/Logan) on Saturday our full backs look vulnerable.

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Game at Killie we played Stewart in front of him and he was very effective. Since then we've hardly put the same team out due to injuries and managerial meltdowns.

He'll be OK. I feel sorry for the players last 2 games to be honest, we tried all sorts of formations pre-season to familiarise the players. One we didn't play however was 3 5 2, which Hartley decides to thrust upon them out the blue.

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I hate the formation and tactics going on right now. We need a solid back line and the midfield to do the job for us. Very dangerious playing with wing backs that have no real pace to get back when required, simply cant be done with the likes of holt/irvine/mcpake. Hartleys making it harder for himself

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Game at Killie we played Stewart in front of him and he was very effective
Stewart had a licence to roam at Killie and both his goals were scored from the right side. He may have appeared down the left on occasion but he certainly wasn't tied down to that particular position. The forwards movement probably gave Holt more options going forward.

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Stewart had a licence to roam at Killie and both his goals were scored from the right side. He may have appeared down the left on occasion but he certainly wasn't tied down to that particular position. The forwards movement probably gave Holt more options going forward.

Yes agreed, point was there was an out ball and overlap available for him all game. That's where our second goal came from.

Last night he was totally isolated, we hardly created any two on one situations and 9 times out of 10 he had to play the ball back or into Hemmings when he was tightly marked.

We simply didn't have the shape to move the ball quickly enough.

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Why not play Meggat at LB? presumably he was signed as competition for this place. Gary Irvine is a RB-just not a very good one. 

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Yes agreed, point was there was an out ball and overlap available for him all game. That's where our second goal came from.

Last night he was totally isolated, we hardly created any two on one situations and 9 times out of 10 he had to play the ball back or into Hemmings when he was tightly marked.

We simply didn't have the shape to move the ball quickly enough.

So the difference between Killie and last night formation wise was down to lack of personnel. If Loy and Thompson were available we'd have had more options further forward to capitalise on Holts forays forward.

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Game at Killie we played Stewart in front of him and he was very effective. Since then we've hardly put the same team out due to injuries and managerial meltdowns.

He'll be OK. I feel sorry for the players last 2 games to be honest, we tried all sorts of formations pre-season to familiarise the players. One we didn't play however was 3 5 2, which Hartley decides to thrust upon them out the blue.

He was effective at Killie not because of Stewart but because Killie never attacked us and were shocking!!

He does look like he can be a player and part of that is down to the support of the team and who is playing in what position, but his distribution (like Mcginn) is poor for someone who is to play as a wing back. So I agree with the OP, either Irvine should get his chance or we need to change to a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 to give the defence more cover.

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So the difference between Killie and last night formation wise was down to lack of personnel. If Loy and Thompson were available we'd have had more options further forward to capitalise on Holts forays forward.

Not lack of personnel, we still had 11 men on the pitch. It was due to playing a system where creative players like Harkins were too deep, much deeper than he was at Killie, and unable to influence the game. Meanwhile Konrad and Etxabeguren were having to push 20 yards into their half to find a pass because the wing backs were struggling to find space.

I don't know why you can't accept that was an experiment gone wrong from Hartley last night. You're in the minority of you think it was anything else.

Two games with that system, 1 for 5 against, one of these games against a team in the 3rd tier.

The prosecution rests. Much like their defence :)

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Not lack of personnel, we still had 11 men on the pitch. It was due to playing a system where creative players like Harkins were too deep, much deeper than he was at Killie
Harkins played deep due to lack of personnel. If Thompson or Ferry were available we could have deployed Gary further forward as we did against Killie. The system didn't dictate where Gary played, injuries did. We could have played that system with Thompson deep and Gary further forward but unfortunately Thompson wasn't available.

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I don't know why you can't accept that was an experiment gone wrong from Hartley last night. You're in the minority of you think it was anything else.
Read every one of my posts on that particular system blythswood.

If you want to save face you can just send me a private apology. :P

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Read every one of my posts on that particular system blythswood.

If you want to save face you can just send me a private apology. :P

FFS there's about 1000 posts from last night I'm not trawling though them :)

From memory, your angle seems to be that it wasn't the formation that cost us the game. I'm saying it was.

Therefore an experiment from Hartley gone wrong. Yes or no?

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FFS there's about 1000 posts from last night I'm not trawling though them :)

From memory, your angle seems to be that it wasn't the formation that cost us the game. I'm saying it was.

Therefore an experiment from Hartley gone wrong. Yes or no?

I'm not in love with the system as I've said previously but it did not cost us the win last night. The failure to take our chances cost us, not the system.

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I'm not in love with the system as I've said previously but it did not cost us the win last night. The failure to take our chances cost us, not the system.

I don't agree, it was a very bad night for Hartley and I'll leave it there.

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I don't agree, it was a very bad night for Hartley and I'll leave it there.

A wee bit stubborn as well then. So PH is in good company apparently.

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3 centre backs and Harkins right in front of them is what I was told we played last night.

Add the 2 wing backs in and you're playing with 6 defenders against a 2nd division team and we still lose 3-1.

The system certainly did not work last night just because we created 18 chances that we failed to take.

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