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Kilmarnock to Dunfermline; Where Did It All Go Wrong

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Was at Killie and I rightly, I think, enthused that that performance was as good a 90 minutes that I have seen from a Dundee side in many a year. Was at Dunfermline and thought the performance very poor, but not quite as bad as some have made out. So where are we now 6 games in.

Killie. As I have said an excellent performance but against what has been proved then and in subsequent games a very poor Killie side. In saying that we were really good and you can only play the team in front of you. We had probably our strongest side with all players fit apart from Low (First injury) and only McPake missing through suspension.

Hearts. First half carried on from the first game, could have been out of sight by half time. Fell out of game in second half and lost game that we should have arguably won but at least drawn. Second injury kicks in with Loy out in addition to Low .

United. Great first half again should have been out of sight. Poor second half masked by late comeback. The feelgood factor still in place due to said comeback. Third injury kicks in with Thomson crocked, not to have been seen since. Loy not fully fit for this game. Low comeback looked like a plus

St Johnstone. Very good first half once again, could have been made to pay in the second but a good win, On the downside; no Thompson, no Loy and the excellent Low (carrying on a from good performance in the Derby) going off injured, not to have been seen since. Back to three vital players injured.

Aberdeen. Apart from a spell at the start of the second half did not look like getting a result. Thompson, Loy and Low all missing. Not a disastrous performance but not very good.

Dunfermline. Hartley tempted fate with his going for a good cup run and playing strongest team comments but it is a fact that we could only put on the strongest team available to us on the night. Once again Thompson, Loy and Low all missing and we lose Julen early in the second half to injury number four, one that will likely keep him out for weeks. Any fool can see the pattern forming. Had we been a little luckier with injuries we could have had a few more points and still be in the cup. To the game we were naive in thinking that we could pass around in our own half, try to play pretty football and win by showing our class. Cups, especially the League Cup is littered with shocks many against us in recent years but also results like Morton putting out Celtic. Dundee don't seem to be able to compete in these 'typical' cup ties where graft, character and tactical nous wins games rather than trying to play pretty football. Often in these games you basically have to 'just get tore in' and try to play the lower League teams at their own game. In saying that Dunfermline did play some reasonable football especially first half. It was a bad defeat, a poorish performance but given the chances we could, indeed should, have won the game. Just before Dunfermline's second we had umpteen chances and as others have posted had we taken only one we would have been through and it may well have been us that scored a third as Dunfermline would have had to do as we did and throw everyone forward. Basically their third goal was irrelevant. Very little of the supposed meltdown that many think has taken place on this and other sites would have happened.

ICT. Saturday will be the difference before the first International's mini break to make or break the seasons start. A win and we will be top six and have two weeks to try to get a few of the injured players back. A defeat and we could well drop into the bottom six. Likelihood is that we will be without at least 3 of the 4 injured players.

How to get back to the Killie type performance

1) Don't panic, we have played a lot of good football this season.

2) Pray that we get a better run of injuries from now on. I write off Thompson to only being available every third game or so but hope that the other three get and stay fit.

3) Find a formation and stick to it. No three central defenders at the back and McPake going up for corners and the occasional foray forward is OK but he isn't a Centre Forward and is needed in defence.

4) Hope that Holt's last couple of games is a blip and he gets back to looking the prospect as per the first few games. If not try someone else, not Irvine though. Why we sent Cammy Kerr out on loan I don't know. Also hope that Gowser finds some form soon because he is a shadow of last years player.

5) Start putting away a higher percentage of our chances, starting on Saturday.

Finally what strikes me with dread is that despite all the talk of us taking over as the top dog in town United have a chance to be on the same points as us after Saturday and they are still in the Cup due to the daft rule carried over from when we had 5 teams in Europe. It also looks like they will sign Billy McKay, a player we could do with at Dens. A win on Saturday is more than vital, it is a necessity to keep any goodwill factor going.

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It's not "all gone wrong"

It's one very poor result in what has otherwise been a very encouraging start to the season.

Learning from our mistakes and getting the rub of the green with injures is crucial..

We move on.

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IMHO although we looked good at Killie I thought everything went in our favour, for example-Killie were poor and we scored at the right times, before h/t and straight after. I never really got the hype after that 1 game. We played well that day but carried a bit of luck as well.

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It's not all went wrong.

Tuesday night was a terrible result.

Aberdeen was a disappointing but entirely expected result.

We beat St Johnstone at Dens for the first time in 7 years the week before that.

Got a point at Tannadice after losing the previous fixtures there 3-0 and 6-2 (albeit, the 2-2 this season was a missed opportunity to beat that heap)

Hearts game we lost it second half after an excellent first half display.

Killie, our best away top flight result in years.

Been a mixed bag but certainly hasn't all went wrong. Injuries and lack of options are costing us right now.

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We were playing some great football, scoring goals and winning games last October/November. Then McGowan got injured, the team lost its balance, the goals dried up and we went on a terrible run until the New Year.

Once again Hartley has set up an exciting, attacking team but with Low and Thomson both unavailable, we're a pale imitation of the side that destroyed Killie. The team has lost its balance and the manager is going to have to find a solution, the easiest of which would be to get Low or Thomson on the park.

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 Injuries and lack of options are costing us right now.

This is it right here - (and in that order!)

Nail on head.

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We were playing some great football, scoring goals and winning games last October/November. Then McGowan got injured, the team lost its balance, the goals dried up and we went on a terrible run until the New Year.

Once again Hartley has set up an exciting, attacking team but with Low and Thomson both unavailable, we're a pale imitation of the side that destroyed Killie. The team has lost its balance and the manager is going to have to find a solution, the easiest of which would be to get Low or Thomson on the park.

Disagree that it was down to Mcgowan being injured.

We had Stewart and Clarkson as a front 2 with Harkins in behind - Nearly every goal we scored in that period involved one, two or all 3 of them. We were 1-0 up at halftime against Inverness and Stewart went off injured. We lost 2-1. The following week he wasn't fit enough to start at Hamilton - we were awful, Stewart come off the bench but Harkins was sent off and then was injured for a few weeks and this was basically the end of these 3 playing together. That is what de-railed our good run. Nothing to do with Mcgowan IMO.

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Injuries to important players have taken their toll. That's the difference for me.

I'd like the team to play with more width but if your creating 5 excellent chances per game playing a narrow 4-3-3 not sure there's much to moan about.

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What went wrong? Injuries again is what has went wrong.

We cannot build a team around Thomson. There must be another way otherwise we are f**ked.

Both Loy and Low missing has had a big impact too.

If we get Loy back so him Hemmings nd Stewart all start then we will be much better.

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Where has it all gone wrong?????  sorry we are playing football aren't we....nothing has gone wrong. As most guys have said -  we have had injuries, our confidence has taken a bit of a knock , we have tried different formations,  a wee dip in form (individually and collectively) etc etc etc. 

No guarantees in football. We could come good next few games go on to finish 4th, win the Scottish cup. We could continue to struggle for a few weeks. It's so early in the season it's scary how some folk panic or react to a poor couple of games. 

We have a good young manager who has signed decent players and improved the squad. We are definitely moving in the right direction.

But this is football and there will be ups and downs. The important thing is not to panic when your down and just get behind the team. If at the end of the season the team hasn't doesn't as well as we hope, no doubt the board will look at the managers position but they have to take into consideration injuries etc. Get the feeling PH would strengthen the team every season given the chance.

Nothing wrong with Dundee FC in my opinion (apart from the prices but we wont go there ;) )   

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It's a bad combination of a team with quite a few new players that needs time to gel. Strikers that will get lots of goals once they sharpen up and last but not least, injuries which stop both of the above happening.

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Injuries. International breaks coming at a good time - a win against Inverness will mean a brilliant start to the league.

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It's not "all gone wrong"

It's one very poor result in what has otherwise been a very encouraging start to the season.

Learning from our mistakes and getting the rub of the green with injures is crucial..

We move on.

I actually agree that its not "all gone wrong". My post was in response to imo the over the top negative reaction to the Dunfermline game. I madevtye point that injuries were the major factor and said don't panic over 1 bad result.

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Not having a squad to allow us to make changes during the game.

KT is a great player, but the nature of the beast is he will miss games. So knowing this you'd assume we would have a large enough squad to cope.

Didn't understand the logic of letting boys like Davidson and JMac go at the time, and the fact we cant make subbies reinforces this. Yeah they are not world beaters but they were always available and could slot into the team in a few different positions.

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Was at Killie and I rightly, I think, enthused that that performance was as good a 90 minutes that I have seen from a Dundee side in many a year. Was at Dunfermline and thought the performance very poor, but not quite as bad as some have made out. So where are we now 6 games in.

Killie. As I have said an excellent performance but against what has been proved then and in subsequent games a very poor Killie side. In saying that we were really good and you can only play the team in front of you. We had probably our strongest side with all players fit apart from Low (First injury) and only McPake missing through suspension.

Hearts. First half carried on from the first game, could have been out of sight by half time. Fell out of game in second half and lost game that we should have arguably won but at least drawn. Second injury kicks in with Loy out in addition to Low .

United. Great first half again should have been out of sight. Poor second half masked by late comeback. The feelgood factor still in place due to said comeback. Third injury kicks in with Thomson crocked, not to have been seen since. Loy not fully fit for this game. Low comeback looked like a plus

St Johnstone. Very good first half once again, could have been made to pay in the second but a good win, On the downside; no Thompson, no Loy and the excellent Low (carrying on a from good performance in the Derby) going off injured, not to have been seen since. Back to three vital players injured.

Aberdeen. Apart from a spell at the start of the second half did not look like getting a result. Thompson, Loy and Low all missing. Not a disastrous performance but not very good.

Dunfermline. Hartley tempted fate with his going for a good cup run and playing strongest team comments but it is a fact that we could only put on the strongest team available to us on the night. Once again Thompson, Loy and Low all missing and we lose Julen early in the second half to injury number four, one that will likely keep him out for weeks. Any fool can see the pattern forming. Had we been a little luckier with injuries we could have had a few more points and still be in the cup. To the game we were naive in thinking that we could pass around in our own half, try to play pretty football and win by showing our class. Cups, especially the League Cup is littered with shocks many against us in recent years but also results like Morton putting out Celtic. Dundee don't seem to be able to compete in these 'typical' cup ties where graft, character and tactical nous wins games rather than trying to play pretty football. Often in these games you basically have to 'just get tore in' and try to play the lower League teams at their own game. In saying that Dunfermline did play some reasonable football especially first half. It was a bad defeat, a poorish performance but given the chances we could, indeed should, have won the game. Just before Dunfermline's second we had umpteen chances and as others have posted had we taken only one we would have been through and it may well have been us that scored a third as Dunfermline would have had to do as we did and throw everyone forward. Basically their third goal was irrelevant. Very little of the supposed meltdown that many think has taken place on this and other sites would have happened.

ICT. Saturday will be the difference before the first International's mini break to make or break the seasons start. A win and we will be top six and have two weeks to try to get a few of the injured players back. A defeat and we could well drop into the bottom six. Likelihood is that we will be without at least 3 of the 4 injured players.

How to get back to the Killie type performance

1) Don't panic, we have played a lot of good football this season.

2) Pray that we get a better run of injuries from now on. I write off Thompson to only being available every third game or so but hope that the other three get and stay fit.

3) Find a formation and stick to it. No three central defenders at the back and McPake going up for corners and the occasional foray forward is OK but he isn't a Centre Forward and is needed in defence.

4) Hope that Holt's last couple of games is a blip and he gets back to looking the prospect as per the first few games. If not try someone else, not Irvine though. Why we sent Cammy Kerr out on loan I don't know. Also hope that Gowser finds some form soon because he is a shadow of last years player.

5) Start putting away a higher percentage of our chances, starting on Saturday.

Finally what strikes me with dread is that despite all the talk of us taking over as the top dog in town United have a chance to be on the same points as us after Saturday and they are still in the Cup due to the daft rule carried over from when we had 5 teams in Europe. It also looks like they will sign Billy McKay, a player we could do with at Dens. A win on Saturday is more than vital, it is a necessity to keep any goodwill factor going.

1. Think we have played some good football, a lot would be stretching it.

2. Don't think praying will help, we have signed a few injury prone players.

3. I am all for sticking with a familiar system but would prefer us to have a system that works reasonably well without KT.

4. Think holt is decent and athletic and will come good.

5. That's how you win games.

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