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Where Did You Expect Us to Be After 8 Years....

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in the 1st division and with two administrations under our belt?

(Before people start to assume this is me being 'funny' or having a go at others because there seems to be a split in our support, it's not.)

I'm looking to get an understanding on where you think we realistically should see ourselves after more or less 10 years out in the barren and mismanaged to the point where we have seen more administrations than this club should have been through?

Yes, we are one of the better supported teams in this league, but does that give us an automatic right to be beating other teams week in and week who don't have the same support as us, especially considering most of them have been established in this league for a lot longer than us? Or is this an indication of how far we have come in a short distance that we have a higher expectation of ourselves as a team and club. It wasn't that long ago that ICT was beating us 4-1 repeatedly in games.

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dundee fc should be an established mid table club , with a decent cup run every now and again as well as having a good youth set up.

we should be on par with utd based on crowd's, but better than ict,the fermer's,ross county,hamilton and the like's.

maybe every now and again a push towards Europe.

i'm more than happy with the direction the club is going in for once and just wish the Marr's had took the chance like the current owners to build for the future instead of chasing the big buck's in transfer's that failed miserably.

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It's a building process. I know some folk will point to our fanbase and resources compared to other's but we need to solidify and build year on year before we consider ourselves a club who should be challenging in the top 4 of the league.

St Johnstone and Inverness are a good example. Saints come up in 2009, ICT a year later in 2010. Both are now seen as regular top 6 clubs, both have won the Scottish Cup and recently competed in Europe - all the things we are aiming for. 

Saints finished 8th in their first 2 seasons in the league. Not until their 3rd season up - they reached the top 6, then they finished 3rd and made Europe, then they won the cup. It was a gradual process that seen them take steps year on year and now look where they are.

Inverness finished 7th and then 10th in their first seasons - before making the top 6 at the 3rd attempt. They have been there ever since and like Saints, managed 3rd place and a cup win. 

This is the blueprint we need to follow. If we can make the top 6 again this season, I would be happy enough with that - we are already ahead of schedule if we were to follow in the footsteps of these 2 sides. I know we are have bigger resources than a lot of clubs, but it doesn't mean that we don't need to be patient. 12 years since our initial admin has caused us basically nothing but hell up until PH took over. Since then it has generally been an upward curve and I think this wee upturn in the past 18 months has made some folk lose sight of what has went before us. A couple of bad results (Don't get me wrong, Tuesday was a disaster) and some folk are losing the plot. 

Think we just need this wee break to re-group, get a couple of players in, get Loy, Harkins back and allow Thomson and Low get back to 100%. We are sitting 6th, we have seen a lot to be pleased about and some stuff to be concerned about, but I think we need to have some calm after this week. Look at the state teams like Killie, Partick, Motherwell and even the filth across the road are in. We will be fine, and comfortably top 6 IMO which I would be more than happy with. 

Rome wasn't built in a day. 

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dundee fc should be an established mid table club , with a decent cup run every now and again as well as having a good youth set up.

we should be on par with utd based on crowd's, but better than ict,the fermer's,ross county,hamilton and the like's.

maybe every now and again a push towards Europe.

i'm more than happy with the direction the club is going in for once and just wish the Marr's had took the chance like the current owners to build for the future instead of chasing the big buck's in transfer's that failed miserably.

Not trying to be funny here but why 'SHOULD' we be in that position?

There was a thread the other day about how bad our record is against ICT over the last 11 years. Truth is we've been so bad for the past 11 years that we probably don't have a good record against any of the club you mention.

In my view we're building from the bottom and all the things we should have will take time to achieve.

Edited by Deeranged

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in the 1st division and with two administrations under our belt?

(Before people start to assume this is me being 'funny' or having a go at others because there seems to be a split in our support, it's not.)

I'm looking to get an understanding on where you think we realistically should see ourselves after more or less 10 years out in the barren and mismanaged to the point where we have seen more administrations than this club should have been through?

Yes, we are one of the better supported teams in this league, but does that give us an automatic right to be beating other teams week in and week who don't have the same support as us, especially considering most of them have been established in this league for a lot longer than us? Or is this an indication of how far we have come in a short distance that we have a higher expectation of ourselves as a team and club. It wasn't that long ago that ICT was beating us 4-1 repeatedly in games.

Roughly where we are now.

But the fans can see we ain't winning many games at the moment just been papped oot the league cup.

Fine lines in football doesn't take much for the majority of fans to go fae neutral opinion to slightly more vocal with their concerns.

People are people and generally greedy for a wee bit o tangible success rather than perceived success.

I'm thankful Utd are kak at the moment as if they were 3 or 4 points ahead of us the grumblings would be louder. Sad but true.

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No club has a divine right to be performing at any level IMO.

Scottish football in recent years has proved this time and time again..

We will be performing at a level where the collective output of the players, manager, BoD and supporters allows us to.

Obviously I want that to be as high a level as possible and despite recent negativity and a bit of a tricky patch, I think we're doing well at the moment.

A good run of performances and results after the international break and we'll be world beaters again no doubt!

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Last year the target was survival and we finished top six. This season I think the target has to be staying in top six, and I think we'll do it.

Our record this season of W2 D2 L2 is pretty good when you consider that four of the six games came against teams that finished above us last season. Probably our two key midfielders Thomson and Low played yesterday together for the first time in a competitive fixture so we have to be happy with being in the top six.

When we've played all teams once we'll have a decent idea of what the season is going to be like but as things stand I'm pleased with our progress.

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Bottom 6 hoping for no lower than 10th, basically surviving. Hoping for the odd cup run but not the be all and end all.

April 2014 Hartley worked miracles to get the squad he had up into the Premier. Took over in 2nd (possibly 3rd after a 3 nil doing at Falkirk) with a side that looked like it would fall away behind Falkirk and Hamilton. Had to do a major overhaul of the squad or we would've went right back down. Plus build a youth set-up that had produced nothing in te last 5/6 years.

Great to now be in a position where there's a meltdown because we don't win at home to Hearts and away to Aberdeen. The club is getting stronger and stronger as each season goes by with Hartley and dare I say it FPS in charge.

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Bottom 6 hoping for no lower than 10th, basically surviving. Hoping for the odd cup run but not the be all and end all.

April 2014 Hartley worked miracles to get the squad he had up into the Premier. Took over in 2nd (possibly 3rd after a 3 nil doing at Falkirk) with a side that looked like it would fall away behind Falkirk and Hamilton. Had to do a major overhaul of the squad or we would've went right back down. Plus build a youth set-up that had produced nothing in te last 5/6 years.

Great to now be in a position where there's a meltdown because we don't win at home to Hearts and away to Aberdeen. The club is getting stronger and stronger as each season goes by with Hartley and dare I say it FPS in charge.

If that was the extent of the ambition at dfc I wouldn't want to know.

And to say Hartley worked a miracle in getting us up is a statement peter mandleson would be proud of and does ph nae favours at all.

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Last year the target was survival and we finished top six. This season I think the target has to be staying in top six, and I think we'll do it.

Our record this season of W2 D2 L2 is pretty good when you consider that four of the six games came against teams that finished above us last season. Probably our two key midfielders Thomson and Low played yesterday together for the first time in a competitive fixture so we have to be happy with being in the top six.

When we've played all teams once we'll have a decent idea of what the season is going to be like but as things stand I'm pleased with our progress.

Great point about our opening fixtures Cobra.

United (A)

Aberdeen (A)

Hearts (H)

ICT (H)

St Johnstone (H)

Killie (A)

I wouldn't imagine many realistic Dees would have been expecting us to turn them all over..

I think we'll have a good idea of where we stand after the opening round of fixtures are complete.

Celtic aside, we have a really important run of fixtures coming up in:

Partick (A)

Celtic (A)

Ross County (H)

Motherwell (H)

Hamilton (A)

If we managed to put another nine or ten points on the board from that run of fixtures, I think it would not only see us climb higher than our current sixth spot but also re-install a bit of positivity amongst the support.

Ross County seem to be the "surprise" team this year and Hamilton are going well again. Hopefully we can start back after the international break with three points at Firhill..

Edited by Boba Fett

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Let's be honest that team he inherited was p!sh are you expecting cup wins :)

By the way your comments about the Derry natives getting restless towards Hartley yesterday was a bit of a porky.

Edited by Pablothedee

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Let's be honest that team he inherited was p!sh are you expecting cup wins :)

By the way your comments about the Derry natives getting restless towards Hartley yesterday was a bit of a porky.

I was hoping for at a semi ( mibbe that's an age thing though) in a seeded draw, a semi final would be one round further than we should expect to get that's why I'm saying was hoping.

I sit under the camera in the Derry, the natives were restless there I can assure you.

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I'm the same about the the seeded cup Roros. Definitely expected quarter finals unless we drew Hearts or Rangers away.

I sit at the opposite end of the Derry and can assure you heard nothing. Were the shouts for Hartley to get punted?

Edited by Pablothedee

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"3 fae 18 Hartley get the (sweary word) finger oot this is (sweary word)

"same sh**e different day Hartley"

Something aboot using us (dfc) as an experiment. Don't get that one myself.

A couple of others, nothing major but there are rumblings.

I want him there I honestly do, I calm down quickly after games these days but I just don't want him made out as something he's not.

P.s the youth thing I couldn't comment I've nae idea how its going.

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After the last 8 years I'm not only happy to be where we are but amazed! Twice on the brink of extinction and at best heading for part time football mid table in the championship less than 3 years ago. I'm old enough and have supported the Dee's long enough to appreciate how lucky we are right now. We are the top team in our city once again and I think that may be the case for a while to come.

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Bold statement giving oor next two away and dabs two at home but its very enjoyable to be above them.

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Maybe the team he inherited was pish but seeing as there is now only one survivor from that team who has been given two contract extensions by PH then it's a bit of a moot point IMO.

Where do I think we should be? Personally I think we should be doing a little better in terms of results and entertainment levels, though I would sacrifice entertainment levels for consistent wins. The reason I say that is because I think a style of play change would make us a) miles more watchable and B) a bit more successful.

A lot has been made of the hatchet man tactics opponents are playing against us. It's no real surprise that we are because it's the easy way to get something against us. We have lots of good ball players but only really Thomson and McPake who will dig in in the trenches. Therefore a bit of rough and tumble and we struggle to cope with it. ICT saw this and when even a laddie like Ryan Christie is mixing it it's a bit of an eye opener.

I know I beat the same drum every week and apologies if it's boring however this formation will be the downfall for us. We have some good players, there's no doubt about that. However without width and pace we will continually get laboured performances where we struggle to break down well organised team like today. Some people seem to think that constitutes good football and fair play if that's their opinion. Doesn't do much for me however. If one of our new signings had been a replacement for Martin Boyle for example I think that would have greatly helped.

The past is the past and whilst it shouldn't be forgotten it also can't be the reason why we should just have a big cheesy grin at the moment. We could be doing worse, yes, but we could also be doing a bit better and I don't think it's unreasonable to say that.

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Never heard any of that to be honest, it was the ref getting it down our end. Was it the same person shouting all that :)

The only thing I can judge the youths on is the lack of players progressing thro it. For Bene to be the best since McDonald says it all really.

After what we've all been through in the last 10/12 years I'll just be hopeful of always remaining in the top league 1st and foremost, then if possible to be top 8 so we're seeded in the league cup. at the start of the season I expect Celtic to win 2 of the 3 trophies

Edited by Pablothedee

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After the last 8 years I'm not only happy to be where we are but amazed! Twice on the brink of extinction and at best heading for part time football mid table in the championship less than 3 years ago. I'm old enough and have supported the Dee's long enough to appreciate how lucky we are right now. We are the top team in our city once again and I think that may be the case for a while to come.

That's how I feel as well Cobra.

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Never heard any of that to be honest, it was the red getting it down our end. Was it the same person shouting all that :)

The only thing I can judge the youths on is the lack of players progressing thro it. For Bene to be the best since McDonald says it all really.

After what we've all been through in the last 10/12 years I'll just hopefully of always remaining in the top league 1st and foremost, then if possible to be top 8 so we're seeded in the league cup. at the start of the season I expect Celtic to win 2 of the 3 trophies

Wasn't the same person, same area maybe.

Re this happy to survive thing I could never agree with that.

If I played for your team transfer request would be in as your ambition didn't match mine. Lol

Ph set his own target this season, a real go in the cups (1 down 1 to go), more points and goals than Last season and top 6 although he said ( and I agree) that this would be slightly more difficult.

Don't think people are judging him by unrealistic goals and targets just the ones he set himself.

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