HK Blues

We will see a difference, but I suspect not in a good way. They will simply turn their noses up at our offer and choose another club.

Ah well, we'd have just blew the 800k on more sh**e which would have pissed us off no end. So, Nelms played a blinder on this one!

What do you mean by underachieving, though? Not matching fans' expectations? Comparing the current situation to a glory period which lasted about 10 years, maybe? Poor return on financial investment? Not doing as well as our wee neighbours across the street? Having a notion that we are one of the big 6 or 7 clubs in the country yet consistently failing to be in the top 6 or 7? Having a fanbase which is larger than many other clubs who have consistently done better than us for as long as we can remember? Only winning 1 cup in 40+ years? For me, the disappointment is pretty much based on the fact that I have the notion we are a bigger club than we have actually been in my lifetime (54 years and counting) . You can look at it both ways - underachieving or expecting too much when 'reality' says otherwise?

Are we underachieving or over expecting? If we've been underachieving it's been for as long as I can remember so I wonder where the bar should really be set? I'm not talking about a snapshot, just over a period of a good few decades. Honestly speaking, the last couple of seasons have put things in perspective for me - we are a lower 1/3 of the top league at best.

My understanding is that the term comes from the days of apprenticeships - it is often interpreted as being a little negative but it really isn't. In footballing terms, and this was new for me, it seems that it does get used when referring to a player moving around clubs. So, in that sense, you were spot on DFC1974 - Barry Smith could never be described as a journeyman.

I wouldn't disagree with that, Rev - I was more pointing out that the term journeyman isn't in itself derogatory.

A journeyman is someone who is solid and reliable without being spectacular - perhaps a fair description for Barry Smith?

I still can't get my head around the fact that the difference between them and us is the games between us and at the end of the season that will likely be the case. I think Neilson himself said this would be the case. Kinds puts how supposedly good and bad we both are into perspective.

I'm now in the Philippines Cobra - moved here in 2015. I have a friend in HK who I keep in touch with - he says the situation is mostly fine unless you are unlucky enough to be caught up in the location of the flashpoint. It's mostly OK here but it's not a footballing nation - we lost EPL coverage from this season. Most ex-pats here are American so no football chat with them either. This forum is pretty much the only outlet for my pish talk!

I hear you Cobra - of course part of me is clinging on to the hope that the unexpected will happen but it's the same hope that is dashed 90% of the time. That said, it really isn't a gut wrenching disappointment to find ourselves where we are - not like the feeling of losing to Utd at Tynecatle in semis, of reading that Jim Duffy's career was over or failng to beat Livi and going down We've been much, much lower than this and plenty to look forward to this season. A play-off final against Saintees for example!

I doubt if there are any situations where sacking a manager was clearly the wrong decision but plenty of times where it was proved to be the right one. It's almost like a free hit for the BoD. Whilst almost nobody would say McIntyre was a good appointment, i don't think many would disagree McCann had to go. I don't mention this to stir up old embers, rather to give an example close to home of what I'm trying to say.

It's over for me...probably was the day they signed Shankland. Of course, he may pick up injuries and won't maintain his current form all season, but he'll score enough to keep them comfortably ahead of us. One man can make the difference between an average team and a good one - points wise. I'm absolutely not despondent - we are probably ahead of the game per my expectations when the season started. Play-off spot seemed a fair target and we're on course for that. McPake isn't / wasn't everyone's choice due to his pedigree as a manager, or lack of. Some say it isn't his fault he was appointed - i don't totally agree. In my experience, when you stick your hand up for a task, it's because you think you can do it. Cannot hide behind lack of experience later when it goes t*ts up - not that he is as yet. With the backing he has we should be ok for the play-off spots. Regardless of not having our season being defined by our neighbours, reality is the better they do the worse we FEEL we are doing. No man is an island. Losing Derby's is sore - all of us here have experienced such pain countless times so what to do other than pick ourselves up and move on to the next game. Down(ish) but far from out.

On that we agree!

Nah...it's acknowledging that they may actually have players in individual positions who are better than we have. Doesn't mean they are a better team.

Mitch, I don't see anybody bumming them up here on any basis, never mind daily. But, reality is they are top of the league, 6 points clear and have beaten most of their likely challengers with ease, including us. We are no more or less guilty than most other fans in respect of overplaying our weak points and underplaying our local rivals strengths going into a Derby. Hopefully, we will have plenty to bum up the Dees about on Friday night. If not, we'll analyse the a**e out of where it went wrong, dust ourselves down and pick ourselves up for the next one as usual.