Room For Manouvre

[bapfavor]

How much room for manoeuvre do we have when it comes to strengthening the squad this summer? From what I can work out we have 17 players under contract:

 

Bain, Kerr, Holt, Julen, McPake, O’Dea, O’Hara, McGowan, Vincent, Hateley, Williams, Low, Haber, Wighton, Yordi, Loy, El Bak

 

Of that list Bain is likely to move on. Two of the three centre halves are long-term injured and there has to be a huge doubt over McPake ever playing again and we certainly can’t expect him to come back and immediately be anything near the player he was. Julen isn’t nearly good enough for this level IMO.

 

Can’t see Mitchell, Gomis, Klok or Ross getting near another deal and Ojamaa will go back to his parent club. Gadz might get another year but if we are to progress we really need to be looking to bring in someone better to play alongside O’Dea. At the minimum we need Gadz +1 to provide cover until Julen is back.

 

As well as Julen, Low, Loy and Yordi have very little to add, even as squad players and ideally we’d get rid. Can we afford more expensive pay-offs though when that just eats into the budget? Would be tempted to add Williams to that category but a year into a three-year deal I think we’d be kidding ourselves to think he’s going anywhere this summer.

 

So where does that leave us? Probably needing two keepers, two centre halves and to get some of the non-performers off the wage bill before we even start addressing the things we lack this year like ball winners, naturally wide players and a goalscorer.

 

All in all, that’s an unenviable task for any manager. In an ideal world, we finish top 6 and Hartley begins the clear-out and recruitment process immediately. As that’s unlikely to happen I think Hartley might struggle to keep his job after missing out for a second consecutive year. That would mean more disruption and someone else having to deal with a lot of deadwood.

 

And, of course, all of this depends on us actually staying up. Don’t want to even think about the implications of going down with those financial commitments.

 

[CC33]

We need a big turnover of players imo.
Theres so much dross / deadwood at the club ... if Dundee want to be a top 6 side then ALOT has to go.

GK-Bain - will be off so id rule him out.... im happy with Gourley as number 2

DEF - Kerr , O`Dea are only 2 from current defenders id want in starting 11 for next season.

MID - Keep O`Hara , im honestly struggling after that as rest of midfield is p1ss

CF - Haber , Wighton and El Bak.

Thats me tho ... im always looking for DFC to be best side as possibly can.
If we want a side next season to avoid drop then by all well keep the likes of Holt , Williams , Vincent , Mcgowan , as thats the standard of level they are for.

If we stay up im hoping for a new manager with a new squad as this one clearly isnt good enough.
 

[WeighorstsWang]

I can't see how anyone wanting us to go for a top six berth and move forward would want Haber in the team. He's been good for us and what we had to resort to to get going but as a player to take us forward? No danger.

[harry94]

19 minutes ago, WeighorstsWang said:

I can't see how anyone wanting us to go for a top six berth and move forward would want Haber in the team. He's been good for us and what we had to resort to to get going but as a player to take us forward? No danger.

We should be aiming for better but finding a striker who contributes what he does and has scoring ability is rare. He's a very good player to have in the squad and think we'll rely on him quite a lot in the years to come.

[bapfavor]

52 minutes ago, CC33 said:

We need a big turnover of players imo.
Theres so much dross / deadwood at the club ... if Dundee want to be a top 6 side then ALOT has to go.

GK-Bain - will be off so id rule him out.... im happy with Gourley as number 2

DEF - Kerr , O`Dea are only 2 from current defenders id want in starting 11 for next season.

MID - Keep O`Hara , im honestly struggling after that as rest of midfield is p1ss

CF - Haber , Wighton and El Bak.

Thats me tho ... im always looking for DFC to be best side as possibly can.
If we want a side next season to avoid drop then by all well keep the likes of Holt , Williams , Vincent , Mcgowan , as thats the standard of level they are for.

If we stay up im hoping for a new manager with a new squad as this one clearly isnt good enough.
 

And how much would it cost to pay off every player we don't like?

They are under contract, some for another two years. We may want to bring in better players to start ahead of them but the majority are going nowhere.

How often have you seen Gourlay play?

[CC33]

14 minutes ago, UoDee said:

How often have you seen Gourlay play?

Everyone has a different opinion regarding a number 2
Some folk like a no2 who is or nearly as good as a number 1 ... others like me prefer a cheap number 2 as it saves money and they very rarely need to play.

Example on a bigger scale - Brad Jones at Liverpool , never ever going to be a number 1 but will be called upon when asked.
Gourlay is very young so the idea is he can learn from no1 keeper and he also doesnt command a big wage... to me paying good money (in DFC terms) to a number 2 is a waste of money that could be better used elsewhere.

Re tho in contract - they should be told to either find a new club .. it isnt like we`re going to be hagling for a transfer fee on the likes of Williams etc.. if they dont leave they obv when are a bit more restricted in what other players we can bring in.

PH should never have signed these players in the 1st place , 2/3 year deals for Vincent , Mcpake , Williams , Low etc was complete waste of money.

[sneddee]

haber has made a massive difference  imo  and we need him in the team in the future!!

[CC33]

1 hour ago, WeighorstsWang said:

I can't see how anyone wanting us to go for a top six berth and move forward would want Haber in the team. He's been good for us and what we had to resort to to get going but as a player to take us forward? No danger.

I dont think Haber is a world beater and i did say on here that i though PH was far too quick throwing him a new contract.. should have waited til end of season to review him then decide.... however i think he has made a difference as it just shows what that type of player can do to help side , we cos more problems with a Haber type.
Haber is nae Sara / Falconer but he has gave us an option up front for players to play to.... personally speaking i think it must be a fcking nightmare playing up front for us given the service they get from midfield (esp before when we tried to play slow possesion fitbaw)

[Dundeefc1783]

1 hour ago, CC33 said:

We need a big turnover of players imo.
Theres so much dross / deadwood at the club ... if Dundee want to be a top 6 side then ALOT has to go.

GK-Bain - will be off so id rule him out.... im happy with Gourley as number 2

DEF - Kerr , O`Dea are only 2 from current defenders id want in starting 11 for next season.

MID - Keep O`Hara , im honestly struggling after that as rest of midfield is p1ss

CF - Haber , Wighton and El Bak.

Thats me tho ... im always looking for DFC to be best side as possibly can.
If we want a side next season to avoid drop then by all well keep the likes of Holt , Williams , Vincent , Mcgowan , as thats the standard of level they are for.

If we stay up im hoping for a new manager with a new squad as this one clearly isnt good enough.
 

Holt will surely continue at left back. Has been much improved this season and performed at a similar level to Kerr as well is chipping in with a few goals. 

[CC33]

1 minute ago, Dundeefc1783 said:

Holt will surely continue at left back. Has been much improved this season and performed at a similar level to Kerr as well is chipping in with a few goals. 

Honestly mate - i dont rate him at all ... the only thing i rate him as is 1 of the worst left backs ive seen in a Dundee shirt.
Never ever are we going to a good top 6 side / cup runs with Holt as left back... Kerr has been streets ahead of him imo (kerr so far is my player of the year)

Edited 16 March 2017 by CC33

[bapfavor]

1 minute ago, CC33 said:

Everyone has a different opinion regarding a number 2
Some folk like a no2 who is or nearly as good as a number 1 ... others like me prefer a cheap number 2 as it saves money and they very rarely need to play.

Example on a bigger scale - Brad Jones at Liverpool , never ever going to be a number 1 but will be called upon when asked.
Gourlay is very young so the idea is he can learn from no1 keeper and he also doesnt command a big wage... to me paying good money (in DFC terms) to a number 2 is a waste of money that could be better used elsewhere.

Re tho in contract - they should be told to either find a new club .. it isnt like we`re going to be hagling for a transfer fee on the likes of Williams etc.. if they dont leave they obv when are a bit more restricted in what other players we can bring in.

PH should never have signed these players in the 1st place , 2/3 year deals for Vincent , Mcpake , Williams , Low etc was complete waste of money.

I don't subscribe to the "Here to put pressure on our first-choice keeper" stuff either but a number 2 still has to be of a certain standard to fill in when required. I have no idea if Gourlay is good enough but its bizarre to say you'd be happy to rely on someone you've never seen play IMO.

Say we tell them to find a new club, how likely is it that they would be offered a deal earning as much as they are at Dundee? You've already rubbished them so who wants them at this level? What if they then decide to sit out their deal.

I agree that some of these deals we dished out were crazy but getting rid of players under contract isn't that easy. Some would probably move on for the chance of first team football but all would expect a pay-off to make up for the drop in wages.

What's worse - having Julen, McGowan, Holt and Hateley as back up or paying out a couple of grand every week throughout the season that reduces your chances of replacing them? 

[CC33]

Just now, UoDee said:

I don't subscribe to the "Here to put pressure on our first-choice keeper" stuff either but a number 2 still has to be of a certain standard to fill in when required. I have no idea if Gourlay is good enough but its bizarre to say you'd be happy to rely on someone you've never seen play IMO.

Say we tell them to find a new club, how likely is it that they would be offered a deal earning as much as they are at Dundee? You've already rubbished them so who wants them at this level? What if they then decide to sit out their deal.

I agree that some of these deals we dished out were crazy but getting rid of players under contract isn't that easy. Some would probably move on for the chance of first team football but all would expect a pay-off to make up for the drop in wages.

What's worse - having Julen, McGowan, Holt and Hateley as back up or paying out a couple of grand every week throughout the season that reduces your chances of replacing them? 

Ive seen Mitchell - id be happy for him to be number 2 - number 2 isnt all that important to me.

It would be even more scary if PH offered the likes of Williams etc money that a standard below us couldnt afford.