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The New Stadium Thread

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From today's printed Courier:

Managing director John Nelms has confessed Dundee's move to a new stadium is being held up by money.

The Dark Blues confirmed 16 months ago their intention to leave Dens Park and move to a purpose-built stadium and training facility, plus housing, retail units and a crematorium, close to the city's Camperdown Park. Hundreds of fans took part in a consultation when the proposals were publicly unveiled in September last year and a formal planning application was expected to be submitted to Dundee City Council last December. Concerns have been raised over access to the site but Dundee insist the switch is necessary due to the limitations and costs of staying at Dens Park. However, progress has been slow and Nelms has admitted delays in piecing together the funding for the project have led to frustrating hold-ups.

He said: "We've been working closely with Dundee City Council for a year and a half now, designing and going through the process. We have a private public partnership when it comes to the financing and that process takes a long, long, time. On the other side of it, the land use side, we are ready to go with that. That has been ready to go for quite a long time. But we still have to finalise the private public partnership, for the stadium alone, because that's the catalyst for everything we want to do there. There are some negative thoughts but mostly positive, and we'll get there."

Nelms said during the close season he was hopeful the stadium would be completed by 2020, but has admitted he has constantly had to revise his ambitions throughout the lengthy process. He added: "My timescale was six months ago to have the project in for review by the summer (of 2019). I'll keep pushing and hopefully have it in sooner than that."

 

This may well be taken from the interview in Harry's link above, I've not read/listened to that yet.

I don't think there's anything surprising in this, it's perhaps not a great time to attract external investment, and perhaps our league position wasn't helping in that respect, but if the GBP is to keep falling v USD, they might find this helps to encourage US-based investors. Nelms has said the plans are still progressing & not so far off his earlier target, if he is sure of getting what I assume is the detailed planning application "in for review by the summer".

Higher priority for us fans just now, though, is JM getting the team out of the bottom two places & heading for safety.....but a good look around Dens & you can see we could benefit a lot from getting this development moving soon. 🤞 

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25 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

From today's printed Courier:

Managing director John Nelms has confessed Dundee's move to a new stadium is being held up by money.

The Dark Blues confirmed 16 months ago their intention to leave Dens Park and move to a purpose-built stadium and training facility, plus housing, retail units and a crematorium, close to the city's Camperdown Park. Hundreds of fans took part in a consultation when the proposals were publicly unveiled in September last year and a formal planning application was expected to be submitted to Dundee City Council last December. Concerns have been raised over access to the site but Dundee insist the switch is necessary due to the limitations and costs of staying at Dens Park. However, progress has been slow and Nelms has admitted delays in piecing together the funding for the project have led to frustrating hold-ups.

He said: "We've been working closely with Dundee City Council for a year and a half now, designing and going through the process. We have a private public partnership when it comes to the financing and that process takes a long, long, time. On the other side of it, the land use side, we are ready to go with that. That has been ready to go for quite a long time. But we still have to finalise the private public partnership, for the stadium alone, because that's the catalyst for everything we want to do there. There are some negative thoughts but mostly positive, and we'll get there."

Nelms said during the close season he was hopeful the stadium would be completed by 2020, but has admitted he has constantly had to revise his ambitions throughout the lengthy process. He added: "My timescale was six months ago to have the project in for review by the summer (of 2019). I'll keep pushing and hopefully have it in sooner than that."

 

This may well be taken from the interview in Harry's link above, I've not read/listened to that yet.

I don't think there's anything surprising in this, it's perhaps not a great time to attract external investment, and perhaps our league position wasn't helping in that respect, but if the GBP is to keep falling v USD, they might find this helps to encourage US-based investors. Nelms has said the plans are still progressing & not so far off his earlier target, if he is sure of getting what I assume is the detailed planning application "in for review by the summer".

Higher priority for us fans just now, though, is JM getting the team out of the bottom two places & heading for safety.....but a good look around Dens & you can see we could benefit a lot from getting this development moving soon. 🤞 

Agree with your assumption, no-brainer really.

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1 hour ago, WoodStein said:

From today's printed Courier:

Managing director John Nelms has confessed Dundee's move to a new stadium is being held up by money.

The Dark Blues confirmed 16 months ago their intention to leave Dens Park and move to a purpose-built stadium and training facility, plus housing, retail units and a crematorium, close to the city's Camperdown Park. Hundreds of fans took part in a consultation when the proposals were publicly unveiled in September last year and a formal planning application was expected to be submitted to Dundee City Council last December. Concerns have been raised over access to the site but Dundee insist the switch is necessary due to the limitations and costs of staying at Dens Park. However, progress has been slow and Nelms has admitted delays in piecing together the funding for the project have led to frustrating hold-ups.

He said: "We've been working closely with Dundee City Council for a year and a half now, designing and going through the process. We have a private public partnership when it comes to the financing and that process takes a long, long, time. On the other side of it, the land use side, we are ready to go with that. That has been ready to go for quite a long time. But we still have to finalise the private public partnership, for the stadium alone, because that's the catalyst for everything we want to do there. There are some negative thoughts but mostly positive, and we'll get there."

Nelms said during the close season he was hopeful the stadium would be completed by 2020, but has admitted he has constantly had to revise his ambitions throughout the lengthy process. He added: "My timescale was six months ago to have the project in for review by the summer (of 2019). I'll keep pushing and hopefully have it in sooner than that."

 

This may well be taken from the interview in Harry's link above, I've not read/listened to that yet.

I don't think there's anything surprising in this, it's perhaps not a great time to attract external investment, and perhaps our league position wasn't helping in that respect, but if the GBP is to keep falling v USD, they might find this helps to encourage US-based investors. Nelms has said the plans are still progressing & not so far off his earlier target, if he is sure of getting what I assume is the detailed planning application "in for review by the summer".

Higher priority for us fans just now, though, is JM getting the team out of the bottom two places & heading for safety.....but a good look around Dens & you can see we could benefit a lot from getting this development moving soon. 🤞 

That's the same interview. That's basically it all for his talk about the stadium.

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seems to me that this is a complex deal and with lots of potential supporters to help deliver it.

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This excerpt from the latest statement from the club relates to the new stadium and how it will benefit Dundee FC financially. That is how I interpreted it anyway.

"The sole motivation of the owners is to offset the losses of the club against any gains made by Dark Blue Property Holdings"

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53 minutes ago, wearedarkblue87 said:

Nelms saying plans for the new stadium are finally moving forward.... Whatever that means? 

Scottish Government are supporting and giving the club guidance on the PPP deal (Public-Private Partnership). It's a very complex deal, with a number of different groups involved which is causing the delay. However, seems that the majority of the groups are starting to agree on the finance side of things. Many more hurdles to go, including the planning permission side of things, the tree huggers will no doubt reject it and cause delays. 

On a side note; I see a lot of supporters on a number of social media/forums, moaning how long the stadium is construction is taking to get underway. These projects take years and years to get going before a spade is in the ground. It's very naive to think that this is the same as people putting an extension on their home, the timescales are the polar opposite. Look at Aberdeen FC and their stadium plans. Taken years to get a spade in the ground. 

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1 hour ago, wearedarkblue87 said:

Nelms saying plans for the new stadium are finally moving forward.... Whatever that means? 

His programme article says "finally starting to make progress on the financing of the new stadium project". He said (or it was reported somewhere, forget which) a few months ago that finding investors was taking longer than anticipated, so I guess they now have some 'interested parties'. With the broad scope of the plans for the whole site, including commercial units & housing, it always seemed DBPH would be looking for external investors.

🤞 that it's definite & not just tentative enquiries. 

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15 minutes ago, GregTeamDee said:

Scottish Government are supporting and giving the club guidance on the PPP deal (Public-Private Partnership). It's a very complex deal, with a number of different groups involved which is causing the delay. However, seems that the majority of the groups are starting to agree on the finance side of things. Many more hurdles to go, including the planning permission side of things, the tree huggers will no doubt reject it and cause delays. 

On a side note; I see a lot of supporters on a number of social media/forums, moaning how long the stadium is construction is taking to get underway. These projects take years and years to get going before a spade is in the ground. It's very naive to think that this is the same as people putting an extension on their home, the timescales are the polar opposite. Look at Aberdeen FC and their stadium plans. Taken years to get a spade in the ground. 

Whether through naivety on their part or just a PR push, claiming that the Campy Nou would be built in 3 years (or whatever it was) was always likely to bite them on the a**e, these things always take longer than expected. I can only assume that people get bent out of shape about the 'delays' because they need the drama of feeling strongly about the delays, we're still watching our team and still have a ground, none of us are richer or poorer for it. 

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33 minutes ago, GregTeamDee said:

Many more hurdles to go, including the planning permission side of things, the tree huggers will no doubt reject it and cause delays. 👍

On a side note; I see a lot of supporters on a number of social media/forums, moaning how long the stadium is construction is taking to get underway. These projects take years and years to get going before a spade is in the ground. Look at Aberdeen FC and their stadium plans. Taken years to get a spade in the ground. 👍

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 s

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3 hours ago, GregTeamDee said:

Scottish Government are supporting and giving the club guidance on the PPP deal (Public-Private Partnership). It's a very complex deal, with a number of different groups involved which is causing the delay. However, seems that the majority of the groups are starting to agree on the finance side of things. Many more hurdles to go, including the planning permission side of things, the tree huggers will no doubt reject it and cause delays. 

On a side note; I see a lot of supporters on a number of social media/forums, moaning how long the stadium is construction is taking to get underway. These projects take years and years to get going before a spade is in the ground. It's very naive to think that this is the same as people putting an extension on their home, the timescales are the polar opposite. Look at Aberdeen FC and their stadium plans. Taken years to get a spade in the ground. 

I assume that a  PPP deal is the same as PFI. 

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22 hours ago, GregTeamDee said:

Scottish Government are supporting and giving the club guidance on the PPP deal (Public-Private Partnership). It's a very complex deal, with a number of different groups involved which is causing the delay. However, seems that the majority of the groups are starting to agree on the finance side of things. Many more hurdles to go, including the planning permission side of things, the tree huggers will no doubt reject it and cause delays. 

On a side note; I see a lot of supporters on a number of social media/forums, moaning how long the stadium is construction is taking to get underway. These projects take years and years to get going before a spade is in the ground. It's very naive to think that this is the same as people putting an extension on their home, the timescales are the polar opposite. Look at Aberdeen FC and their stadium plans. Taken years to get a spade in the ground. 

Nobody disagrees with any of that but Nelms originally said we hoped to be in by 2020 which admittedly he revised after a few delays but I'm sure someone (might have been you, might have been Nelms) said that all planning was good to go other than a transport access issue to iron out with transport Scotland.

Now you're saying we've still to get over the hurdles of planning permission?

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56 minutes ago, CW 90+3 02/05/16 said:

Nobody disagrees with any of that but Nelms originally said we hoped to be in by 2020 which admittedly he revised after a few delays but I'm sure someone (might have been you, might have been Nelms) said that all planning was good to go other than a transport access issue to iron out with transport Scotland.

Now you're saying we've still to get over the hurdles of planning permission?

Transport Scotland and planning permission is different things mate.  Transport Scotland is just for the access roads in/out of the complex. In terms of the planning permission, the general public will have their say on the formal application that will go to the council (there was issues with the Regional Sports Centre, something about nesting of birds and trees in Caird Park).

When you put your formal planning application into the council, and with the scale of development, it is expected that work behind the scenes will have been completed, with agencies such as; transport Scotland, Scottish Gov all agreeing in principal of the application (ticks boxes for the planning committee). If not, then it's a waste of time/money and resources putting in the application, when that work hasn't been carried out (you need their agreement to move forward). 

Basically  DBPH will be trying to get as many hurdles down before putting forward their formal application, but even when you enter that stage the standard public objections will crop up, which you might need to overcome if the planning committee or in some circumstances court decide (Aberdeen FC stadium went to court). 

Hope that makes sense! 

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Hopefully DBPH have successfully chipped away at all of the relevant agencies now, and Nelms "better news in the near future" comment in Sunday's programme will be that they are ready to submit the formal planning application, and that investors are confirmed.

The main objections at Caird Park related to wildlife & the park's designation from Sir James Caird's gift 'to the people'.... if those can be overcome, surely any similar objections at Camperdown can. [incidentally, I see the original £21m plan became £32m]

The Aberdeen stadium is located in Green Belt land, and had the Westhill community fundraising (a lot) to pay their legal costs, but hopefully there won't be any objections on this scale for Camperdown. I'm certain there will be some, relating to traffic, noise, crowds, but maybe on an individual basis. 

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8 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

Hopefully DBPH have successfully chipped away at all of the relevant agencies now, and Nelms "better news in the near future" comment in Sunday's programme will be that they are ready to submit the formal planning application, and that investors are confirmed.

The main objections at Caird Park related to wildlife & the park's designation from Sir James Caird's gift 'to the people'.... if those can be overcome, surely any similar objections at Camperdown can. [incidentally, I see the original £21m plan became £32m]

The Aberdeen stadium is located in Green Belt land, and had the Westhill community fundraising (a lot) to pay their legal costs, but hopefully there won't be any objections on this scale for Camperdown. I'm certain there will be some, relating to traffic, noise, crowds, but maybe on an individual basis. 

@islaydarkblue will be first to get his objection in.

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2 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

Incredible.

I fail to understand why you find my post incredible. 

I have previously posted on this forum that I am ‘dead against’ a move to an unsuitable site on part of the former NCR Camperdown grounds. 

If you think that 1,362 cars and 60 coaches all trying to leave the car parks on to the slip road to the Camperdown roundabout is a good idea then good luck to you. 

I think it will result in carnage with supporters from both clubs stuck in the car parks  for hours while the directors will be having post game drinks in the boardroom oblivious to the traffic jams outside. 

 

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11 minutes ago, islaydarkblue said:

I fail to understand why you find my post incredible. 

I have previously posted on this forum that I am ‘dead against’ a move to an unsuitable site on part of the former NCR Camperdown grounds. 

If you think that 1,362 cars and 60 coaches all trying to leave the car parks on to the slip road to the Camperdown roundabout is a good idea then good luck to you. 

I think it will result in carnage with supporters from both clubs stuck in the car parks  for hours while the directors will be having post game drinks in the boardroom oblivious to the traffic jams outside. 

 

Just wait to till you move back to Dundee and want to build a wee extension to your house....5000 Dees writing to the Cooncil with objections! Lol!

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Just now, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

Booooooo!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion even in Scotland. When I submit my objection to the planning application I will explain my concerns and reasons why I am objecting to the granting of the planning application. 

I do not hold out much hope of the councillors listening to objections. The Dundee City Councillors did not exactly cover themselves with glory when they granted planning permission for the controversial Site 6 planning application at the Waterfront Development.

 I have also seen Argyll and Bute Councillors on the planning committee in action and they ‘follow like sheep’ voting in favour rather than listening to the reasoned statements by objectors. 

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11 minutes ago, islaydarkblue said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion even in Scotland. When I submit my objection to the planning application I will explain my concerns and reasons why I am objecting to the granting of the planning application. 

I do not hold out much hope of the councillors listening to objections. The Dundee City Councillors did not exactly cover themselves with glory when they granted planning permission for the controversial Site 6 planning application at the Waterfront Development.

 I have also seen Argyll and Bute Councillors on the planning committee in action and they ‘follow like sheep’ voting in favour rather than listening to the reasoned statements by objectors. 

I know you dont do humour Dougie but I am just having a wee joke with you.

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30 minutes ago, islaydarkblue said:

I fail to understand why you find my post incredible. 

I have previously posted on this forum that I am ‘dead against’ a move to an unsuitable site on part of the former NCR Camperdown grounds. 

If you think that 1,362 cars and 60 coaches all trying to leave the car parks on to the slip road to the Camperdown roundabout is a good idea then good luck to you. 

I think it will result in carnage with supporters from both clubs stuck in the car parks  for hours while the directors will be having post game drinks in the boardroom oblivious to the traffic jams outside. 

 

Islay, DFC is haemorrhaging money every year because of Dens. We desperately need to move to the new stadium asap if we're going to have a future.

Surely as a Dundee fan your priority should be the club successfully overcoming any hurdles and being in a position to start building the stadium.

 

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