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Strong First Team Or Youth Academy?


bp33

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There have been a lot of comments on here re the proposed youth academy, and coaches leaving etc. A simple question, would you rather any money available is spent on the first team, or a new youth academy?

I feel that Rome wasn't made in a day, and would rather that we became an established SPL team, before we spend lots of money on youth. We should also be doing what the Dabs do, and poaching other smaller teams good young players, to develop them at Dens.

It seems to me that a lot of posters, are no happy unless their unhappy.

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Agree but don't realy think you can separate the two fully to be honest. One needs to go hand in hand with the other. First team will always be the priority for me but I view the ability to cherry pick and develop good young talent as a key part of the first teams success.

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Ideally you would run both side by side, so there isn't a gap. And what I mean by that is, Give the manager a budget for first team players BUT also a budget for the youth side of things, so eventually, the youth 'conveyor belt' makes it way into the first team.  Budget for the youth development doesn't need to be big, but you can't stop it completely.

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There have been a lot of comments on here re the proposed youth academy, and coaches leaving etc. A simple question, would you rather any money available is spent on the first team, or a new youth academy?

I feel that Rome wasn't made in a day, and would rather that we became an established SPL team, before we spend lots of money on youth. We should also be doing what the Dabs do, and poaching other smaller teams good young players, to develop them at Dens.

It seems to me that a lot of posters, are no happy unless their unhappy.

Thing is though, they aren't mutually exclusive. Money being diverted from the first team doesn't massively change our budget in the grand scheme of things. We're still able to put a side out that's paid more than say Thistle, Ross County, St Mirren, Hamilton and probably Killie and St Johnstone too.

It's more the effort of pulling everyone in the same direction. There is a big nonsense about this 'elite' status we are seeking for the academy but I found a list of clubs who fit the criteria and posted it on another thread. Ayr United and Clyde were both included and look where they are! A few people I have spoken to have had this idea that it would be a massive wasteful expense but obviously not if we are the only top side who can't seem to afford it and who have a much bigger fanbase.

I think we've just been so inept at running that side of things for a wee while so it feels like their is some sort of catch but many teams run a decent youth academy that is shielded from their successes or failures at first team level. Let's think of running a decent youth set-up instead of signing Sean Bonnett-Johnson and Stephen Hughes each season.

Then get better scouting system in place and cherry pick what we can from lower league teams.

This is definitely as important. United's 'conveyor belt' of talent includes Craig Conway who they took from Ayr, Stuart Armstong from Inverness, GMS who come from Airdrie after being at Liverpool but having massive injury issues, Dixon and Roberson from us, Swanson from Berwick. Then they have taken at least four players from Queen's Park in Douglas, Connolly, Spittal and Robertson.

Not meaning to belittle the work they have done in their youth set-up because they've obviously produced a few very good players on their own but when you see that they take a guy like Robertson and sell him for £2-3 million after only a year with them, you have to wake up and realise that it's a good transfer strategy!

Think of all those First Division squads we've had with total wasters and squad players who contributed nothing when we could have been given a couple of these sort of guys a shot at full time football.

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Ideally you would run both side by side, so there isn't a gap. And what I mean by that is, Give the manager a budget for first team players BUT also a budget for the youth side of things, so eventually, the youth 'conveyor belt' makes it way into the first team.  Budget for the youth development doesn't need to be big, but you can't stop it completely.

Unfortunately, there will never be a ' youth conveyor belt'. Every now and again teams get lucky and get 2 or 3 good players coming through at the same time.

The point I'm making is, when FPS came in, they had to decide what to spend the budget on, and it would be first team for me any day of the week.

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Ideally you would run both side by side, so there isn't a gap. And what I mean by that is, Give the manager a budget for first team players BUT also a budget for the youth side of things, so eventually, the youth 'conveyor belt' makes it way into the first team. Budget for the youth development doesn't need to be big, but you can't stop it completely.

Nail on head for me. Although, IMO it's important to prioritise the first team more this and next season to ensure we stabilise our position in the top flight, allowing Hartley to built a squad of his own and more importantly a nucleus of a team that will allow for a few ins and outs each season.

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You're missing the point as it's not one or the other. ...it's what was preached to us to allow FPS into the Dens boardroom, it was JN that promised us that a competitive team on the pitch and a youth academy that would be the envy of the other teams in Scottish football so it's not a straight 50/50 decision. Again, we (the fans) have been lied to and as much as we've improved slightly on the pitch, we've regressed behind the scenes because people in charge are out of there depths, sadly. Anyway I'm away to support the team in Aberdeen and hopefully 3 point's. Hail Hail :-)

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You're missing the point as it's not one or the other. ...it's what was preached to us to allow FPS into the Dens boardroom, it was JN that promised us that a competitive team on the pitch and a youth academy that would be the envy of the other teams in Scottish football so it's not a straight 50/50 decision. Again, we (the fans) have been lied to and as much as we've improved slightly on the pitch, we've regressed behind the scenes because people in charge are out of there depths, sadly. Anyway I'm away to support the team in Aberdeen and hopefully 3 point's. Hail Hail :-)

I'm not missing the point. I asked a simple question. If we hadn't allowed FPS into the boardroom, we would still be run by the incompetent DFCSS. It will take years to build a successful youth academy, and I don't think he said we would be achieving it overnight.

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I hate the idea o' my post going back to costings and returns, or to put it anaither way "value for money" ...... (after me jist posting on the complexity of the £80M project)        

But maybe, in it's simplest form, that basically is what it is all about.

I think I am changing my mind on this ......although I am not sure just how much progress has been made towards this end.. Part of reason is something I read from a poster yesterday, which I am sure said, DFC has produced only on really good professional player from it's youth ranks in the x number of years (sorry for being vague and not remembering the poster's name) ..... In fact I may have picked it up wrong.

However my view (at this time) is to go for the first choice, and develop a strong first team .........(If nec. put the youth dev. on hold)

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Hello Gedee.

In my opinion the problem lies with the Bosman ruling and the effective end of transfer fees in Scottish football.

Nowadays it is basically "musical chairs" at the summer transfer window with players moving between the various clubs when their contracts have ended.

When Bob Shankly was appointed manager of Dundee the team he inherited was known as "Thornton's babes" as the previous manager Willie Thornton had signed these players either straight from school or from junior clubs.

Back in the 1950's young players signed for Junior clubs and then hoped that a Senior club's scout would notice them and hopefully sign them, whereas nowadays a lot of junior clubs have players who have not made the grade at a Senior club and they have "stepped down" to Junior football.

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That was me gee dee 5 years 1 player.

Says it all about how its been.

We definitely need to start growing our own talent.

Its not all doom an gloom tho i was speaking to an arab on thursday whos 7 year old trains with us and is happy that he is.

So there are young laddies benefitting from manhattan works.

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