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If Given the Choice, What Would Be Your Priority?


Gedee

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Okay, this is about Dundee FC, doing their stuff, in a Shiny, Brand New, Stadium  Complex, in Camperdown, or biding in oor present "ramshackle" o' a Stadium, that is not only uneconomical, but basically & arguably, falling to bits.

There is another bit eh near forgot to add ...

Moving into the New Stadium, as a Championship Club (And hoping/praying, that the following season is the time we move back to the Premiership)    

Or would you be happy to see us, remaining at Dens ..... But not only feeling secure we have survived another season in the Premiership, but totally focused But this time showing/proving, we are NOT only here to stay, but ambitious enough to believe, given a few seasons we will be up there with the best of them.

All this is probably no more than a theoretical discussion, because there's  NOT any simple answer (imo) And one may/or may not, be dependant on the other.

Initially I thought the idea of moving away from Dens was not only for financial/economic reasons, but the move to a New Custom Built Stadium, would open the door wide, to a New Era for DFC, with the additional needed income, being the platform for substantial security & growth for Our Club. Dens Park, with it's long history & tradition, as well as (mixed) memories was (& is) held dear to many fans & supporters (both young & old) But I felt on balance, the move was not only inevitable, but necessary, if we had real ambitions to reach somewhere around the top.

So what's making me, or has made me change my mind?     TBH, again I am not even sure I have.

But this thought keeps on niggling away at me ...

JN's general statement & response to the question (re new-plans) ..."What if DFC are no longer in the Premiership?" And then his response (not exact wording) ... "The plans for New Stadium, will go ahead whether DFC are in the Premiership or not"  (I did not understand that as a glib comment) ...

TBH I near collapsed when I heard that response !!  And it's still festering away at the back of my head all the time.

In fact with oor present position in the Table, I am seriously concerned. How worried is JN about the future of our club? Does it NOT really matter, as long as this Shiny New Complex comes into fruition? (I might as well add, if it does go ahead, I do believe it will make money ... But for whom?  US Investors/DFC/ Both)

If attendances continue to fall at Dens (lower income), then we probably can never be truly ambitious.

New Stadium (in theory at least) should offer this opportunity. Meanwhile DFC Premiership survival is,

A Must ....  JN focus please on present priorities. It's the here & now that is all-important ...DUNDEE :wub: 

(Apologies if this has turned out to be an over-long rambling post I am feeling concerned/down, sorry) 

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I don't think the league we are in is directly relevant to a new stadium.  Obviously, in an ideal world we would be playing at the new place in the top league but i don't see it as a deal breaker.  I think the BoD are taking a long-term view and also the football side will be just one revenue stream amongst others.  I don't think the BoD will choose between funding the team or funding the stadium - a separate pot of  money will have been allocated to each.  They have enough cash for both as far as I am aware so no robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario.

I have faith!

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15 minutes ago, WeighorstsWang said:

New Stadium. The current set up is bleeding us dry, something has to give - even if it means the Championship for another wee spell. 

Agree with this WW. I think the new stadium should, and I stress should, provide a second income stream to help support the finances of the club. I would hope that the business plan is based on sound commercial principles. It looks to be mission impossible to run a football club based solely on the income that can be generated from the sale of tickets and the sale of players so there must be something else going on that will make money to cover the losses that the football side will incur.

Years of success might build the support up but the difference between the top clubs and the next level is massive and will only ever be bridged by getting into the top two places in the SPFL, IMO.

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It's a really good post Geedee. The new stadium is a must I think as Dens, as much as it pains me to say, is rapidly going downhill and even now is well past its sell by date. Of course ideally we move there as a Premiership club and in doing so I think we would make big strides forward to attracting better players and also take advantage of better crowds. When Saint Johnstone moved into their shiny new stadium they were getting crowds that they could only dream of today , between 7-8000 regularly but the notion clearly wore off and although McDermaid is still one of the better provincial club stadiums, crowds of 3000 appear to be the norm. Now that's with Saints being a top six club or better and winning the Scottish Cup so although football is a results driven business it doesn't always follow that crowds will increase, although to be fair Dundee have a much bigger fan base. I was at Easter Road on Saturday and was really impressed by the stadium and of course the Hibs supporters have responded to what matters most ie what the team is doing on the pitch, by turning out in their thousands.So what is our priority? Without question it must be continuing to be a Premiership club, but TBH they both ie the stadium and the football on the pitch, in my opinion have to go hand in hand. However moving to a new stadium as a Championship club whilst admirable is IMO unthinkable. So the answer for me is to get it right on the pitch and everything else will fall nicely into place.

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9 minutes ago, petercaproni said:

It's a really good post Geedee. The new stadium is a must I think as Dens, as much as it pains me to say, is rapidly going downhill and even now is well past its sell by date. Of course ideally we move there as a Premiership club and in doing so I think we would make big strides forward to attracting better players and also take advantage of better crowds. When Saint Johnstone moved into their shiny new stadium they were getting crowds that they could only dream of today , between 7-8000 regularly but the notion clearly wore off and although McDermaid is still one of the better provincial club stadiums, crowds of 3000 appear to be the norm. Now that's with Saints being a top six club or better and winning the Scottish Cup so although football is a results driven business it doesn't always follow that crowds will increase, although to be fair Dundee have a much bigger fan base. I was at Easter Road on Saturday and was really impressed by the stadium and of course the Hibs supporters have responded to what matters most ie what the team is doing on the pitch, by turning out in their thousands.So what is our priority? Without question it must be continuing to be a Premiership club, but TBH they both ie the stadium and the football on the pitch, in my opinion have to go hand in hand. However moving to a new stadium as a Championship club whilst admirable is IMO unthinkable. So the answer for me is to get it right on the pitch and everything else will fall nicely into place.

i used to think like that. We have spent the last decade trying to get things right on the pitch and it has been a success insofar as we are in the SPFL. I don't think we are going to get any better without much more money and we are an example of what happens when money is spent on players in the expectation that they will win games and drive up the attendances thereby creating a virtuous circle of rising attendances creating more money to spend on better players etc etc.

I have changed my opinion and think that it should be better to create a business plan where there is a money making operation that supports the club and that is why IMO the investment in a new ground is essential. If we did fall back a division there would still be the fundamental support for the club from the business plan involving the new stadium.

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The reason I want the new stadium to happen is in the hope that it results in more success on the pitch. So if a new stadium meant championship football then I would choose staying at Dens every single time. Surely product on the park is more important to every fan than stadium facilities.

Dens is falling a part but its also been neglected for years. If it was the long term plan to stay at Dens then there is a lot that could be done to improve it. The decision has obviously been taken that only work that is absolutely necessary will be done on it. Fair enough.

I'd take Nelms comments with a pinch of salt. All clubs in danger of being relegated always say it wouldn't be a disaster. The reality is it would be for any club with a premiership set-up.

In my mind relegation would be a disaster for Dundee. 4/5 years of work under FPS to improve the club and they end up right back to square one. One season we could cope with but we all know the Championship doesn't work like that. There is no guarantee you will go up no matter how much you spend. Look at Rangers, Hibs and United in recent seasons.

I'm not sure our support would be up for the challenge right now of another slog in the Championship right now. It would be a right kick in the teeth considering the high prices we have to pay to supposedly have a quality team on the park. We would be back to getting 3k at games.

I've no doubt the new stadium will go ahead regardless of what division we're in but its success would be really tested if we are a Championship club. Yes the extra facilities can generate extra income but by far the most important thing for its success will be football fans coming through the door. No matter how good the burger vans, toilet facilities etc. are, fans aren't going to turn up if the product on the park isn't good.

 

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Don't want to add too much (at this time anyway) to what was, a bit o' a lengthy post, But maybe just a couple of things.

First & foremost, thank you all for your responses ... whether long or short they are always appreciated & I'm interested.

Although, I'm not fully aware of the direct financial benefits to DFC are, I understand why it has to be. & it makes sense.

In raising the issue of "staying at Dens" my main reason (maybe only reason) for doing so, was because I was concerned

all JN's focus was on New Stadium Project & he may have thought (based on his previous comment) that DFC'c present

position  was no more than a slight distraction. I know that may be unfair. But nevertheless, although I do not expects too

much fron JN in the way of communication between him/DFC,  & DFC fans/supporters. I hope there is frequent, open and

honest comms, between him & NM. Don't mean in the way of adding to NM's worries. But supportive in finding a solution:chaplin:

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6 minutes ago, Gedee said:

Don't want to add too much (at this time anyway) to what was, a bit o' a lengthy post, But maybe just a couple of things.

First & foremost, thank you all for your responses ... whether long or short they are always appreciated & I'm interested.

Although, I'm not fully aware of the direct financial benefits to DFC are, I understand why it has to be. & it makes sense.

In raising the issue of "staying at Dens" my main reason (maybe only reason) for doing so, was because I was concerned

all JN's focus was on New Stadium Project & he may have thought (based on his previous comment) that DFC'c present

position  was no more than a slight distraction. I know that may be unfair. But nevertheless, although I do not expects too

much fron JN in the way of communication between him/DFC,  & DFC fans/supporters. I hope there is frequent, open and

honest comms, between him & NM. Don't mean in the way of adding to NM's worries. But supportive in finding a solution:chaplin:

Separate thread for Nelms/NM relationship IMO. Fair point about is Nelms taking his eye off the football team, but not really what the OP was about! IMO

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