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Playing Out From the Back


Cobra

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Not bad at all, from the team that was already 0-2 down. 

I think NM can get our players to do that in training.....if there's no opposition! :) 

To be serious, Argentina used to train like that in the late 70's, I remember the astonished Scottish Press who went to see them train before they beat Scotland at Hampden (Maradonna's debut, as I recall), said they lined up for a game, just their 11 players, and passed the ball around, made runs, scored various types of goals.....and if Rattin had still been playing, he'd probably have made tackles on invisible opponents, too. :o He was the defender who triggered Alf Ramsey's 'animals' accusation after the WC qtr final at Wembley, when he refused to go off after scything someone at knee height.

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When I played and watched football as a kid in the 1980s there was generally a sense of fair play and honesty so I was quite shocked when I saw Scotland play Uruguay at Mexico 86. For the Uruguayans it was blatantly a case of win at all costs. There was no pretence about it. Bullying the ref, winding up and deliberately hurting the opposition. It was interesting to see how another country could have a totally different attitude to the game. I guess Argentina were a bit similar in that respect.

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South Americans are infamous for it of course.  Even Brazil have not been immune over the years.  The squad they picked for the 1974 World Cup Finals must have been based on the 'must not get beat' or 'must not let the man get past me' philosophy than what they are usually associated with.  More than it's fair share of hatchet men in that squad.

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15 hours ago, Cobra said:

When I played and watched football as a kid in the 1980s there was generally a sense of fair play and honesty so I was quite shocked when I saw Scotland play Uruguay at Mexico 86. For the Uruguayans it was blatantly a case of win at all costs. There was no pretence about it. Bullying the ref, winding up and deliberately hurting the opposition. It was interesting to see how another country could have a totally different attitude to the game. I guess Argentina were a bit similar in that respect.

Uruguay & Argentina games were the closest you could get to war, even before WW2, both countries just played football to their own version of the laws! The first couple of World Cups were a wee bit rough! Uruguay in the 80's, though, were 'tame' by comparison to the previous 2 decades! 

You're too young to have seen the infamous 'battle of the river plate', Celtic's world championship final playoff with the Argentinian side Racing Club in 1967, held 3 days after the 2nd leg, in 'neutral' Montevideo, Uruguay....just across the river. Although full of very skillful players (some of whom I'd watched at Villa Park in the '66 WC group stage), they seemed unable to stop themselves kicking, pushing, punching, spitting all through games. They were pretty bad in Glasgow, but took it to a new level at home....and in the replay, when they started the cynical stuff again, a lot of the Celtic players decided they'd had enough & lost interest in winning the game....and the plot. 

There are 3 9-minute videos - you have to tune-out the excessive 'celticness' of the commentary - it's an interesting bit of history, if you have a spare half hour: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J-QtPWmGNU  ....part 1, starting at home....some great football, but then...... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEEVruCVnjk  ....part 2, the 2nd leg & things turn a bit nasty....keeper Ronnie Simpson knocked out pre-match by 'a missile' probably delivered by a photographer & had to be replaced by Fallon, an outfield player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95jKohSPSDo  ...part 3, the replay, John Hughes 'doing a Jim Watt' with the keeper, Jimmy Johnstone's retaliation, 'Bertie Auld showing Hughes how to box, and Tommy Gemmell's sneaky boot to the balls of the player who'd been spitting at most of the Celtic team. I think most of us at school were very much supportive of Celtic's reaction, and felt they should have 'sorted out' Racing from the first leg. 

It's worth bearing in mind that this country's government was shooting women & kids within a decade, and dropping thousands of 'political prisoners' into the sea from helicopters.  

One of the interesting things are the comments from the most well-respected guys, like Billy McNeil & Jim Craig. Jock Stein was horrified at the players behaviour, though blamed himself for letting the 3rd game go ahead....this event cost Jock Stein his Knighthood, a fact that wasn't known for 40 years. ManU had a similar experience the following year, and Milan after that.

As mentioned above, even Brazil showed they had this 'dark side' in '74, when their skills were on the wane, and they tried to kick Netherlands off the pitch, but were too slow to catch Cruyff.

 

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33 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

Uruguay & Argentina games were the closest you could get to war, even before WW2, both countries just played football to their own version of the laws! The first couple of World Cups were a wee bit rough! Uruguay in the 80's, though, were 'tame' by comparison to the previous 2 decades! 

You're too young to have seen the infamous 'battle of the river plate', Celtic's world championship final playoff with the Argentinian side Racing Club in 1967, held 3 days after the 2nd leg, in 'neutral' Montevideo, Uruguay....just across the river. Although full of very skillful players (some of whom I'd watched at Villa Park in the '66 WC group stage), they seemed unable to stop themselves kicking, pushing, punching, spitting all through games. They were pretty bad in Glasgow, but took it to a new level at home....and in the replay, when they started the cynical stuff again, a lot of the Celtic players decided they'd had enough & lost interest in winning the game....and the plot. 

There are 3 9-minute videos - you have to tune-out the excessive 'celticness' of the commentary - it's an interesting bit of history, if you have a spare half hour: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J-QtPWmGNU  ....part 1, starting at home....some great football, but then...... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEEVruCVnjk  ....part 2, the 2nd leg & things turn a bit nasty....keeper Ronnie Simpson knocked out pre-match by 'a missile' probably delivered by a photographer & had to be replaced by Fallon, an outfield player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95jKohSPSDo  ...part 3, the replay, John Hughes 'doing a Jim Watt' with the keeper, Jimmy Johnstone's retaliation, 'Bertie Auld showing Hughes how to box, and Tommy Gemmell's sneaky boot to the balls of the player who'd been spitting at most of the Celtic team. I think most of us at school were very much supportive of Celtic's reaction, and felt they should have 'sorted out' Racing from the first leg. 

It's worth bearing in mind that this country's government was shooting women & kids within a decade, and dropping thousands of 'political prisoners' into the sea from helicopters.  

One of the interesting things are the comments from the most well-respected guys, like Billy McNeil & Jim Craig. Jock Stein was horrified at the players behaviour, though blamed himself for letting the 3rd game go ahead....this event cost Jock Stein his Knighthood, a fact that wasn't known for 40 years. ManU had a similar experience the following year, and Milan after that.

As mentioned above, even Brazil showed they had this 'dark side' in '74, when their skills were on the wane, and they tried to kick Netherlands off the pitch, but were too slow to catch Cruyff.

 

John Fallon was the reserve goalkeeper at Celtic.

There is a well known saying “Once a cheat always a cheat” and it is more than a passing coincidence that since foreign players started playing for the top English and Scottish teams diving in box to win a penalty has become at lot more common.

In my opionion these players who dive to win a penalty are just cheats and they should be given a Red card every time they do it.

Eventually they might get the message but I doubt it as it is inbred.

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