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Trying To Run Before We Can Walk


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We are trying to run before we can walk this season and that is purely down to the manager. To play the ball from the back you need a lot of things that simply we don't have. Last season we were leaking goals for fun, getting beat 7-0 on an occasion. It was naive to think that one summer window, new manager and new players added to a lot of the players from last season could suddenly change our fortunes.  Don't get me wrong there has been two games maybe that I've enjoyed the style of our play, but that isn't not enough. Football is about wining that is all. 

To play the style McCann wants us to play you need; 

1- Strong foundations. Yesterday our defensive pairing were a miles apart. They shouldn't be any further than a goal width apart. You need to make your team hard to beat, start keeping clean sheets and gain confidence. You need a strong aggressive midfield. Only a handful of players would back you up in a fight in our squad. We don't bully teams at all. We lack leadership. 

2/ For his style you need movement in your team. A fluid system where players drop off, make space, making the opposition move out of position. We are the opposite as we are still trying desperately to keep clean sheets hence why we go static.This makes it easy for the opponents and why we go side to side or back with our passes and don't play the forward ball. The players lack confidence because they know we don't have point 1 sorted and are nervous incase we concede first.

3/ For his style you need a wider pitch. Think of the clubs that play possession based football, Barcelona, Celtic, Man City to name a few. They all have wide pitches,why? Because they have movement in their team. The opposition find it difficult to defend and be compact on a wider pitch. You need to stretch the opposition. But we don't have a wide pitch because we are still trying to point 1. Build a strong foundation and be compact (Trying to run before we can walk). 

4/ Recruitment. McCann was left in a mess with some of the Hartley signings, whilst trying to install his style and ethos at the club within 6 weeks during the summer break. This season he should of got point 1, strong foundations sorted first and in time (season 2/3)  implement his style/ethos for his club. It takes time to get all the players you want (unless you have a massive budget to get rid and buy a new team).

5/ Tactics is a weak point from McCann, he's overthinking it. For being an analyst for Sky Sports and he was a decent one too, its worrying. He wants to play three at the back because he wants to build strong foundations, but when you play three at the back you are making our weak midfield even weaker and making it easy for the opposition. To play possession football you need that 'extra' man in midfield to help turn the game over.  Playing the three at the back defeats the purpose of his style. 

This league isn't hard. Look at Kilmarnock, they do the basics (point 1) very well and they get points. Steve Clarke and Sean Dyche (Burnley manager) all make their teams hard to beat then over time will implement their style and bring in the correct players. 

 More fans will come to the stadium if we win. Bringing through youth players or signing younger players and giving them a chance is great and should continue but it takes time, you wouldn't expect this style to work after 6 weeks in the summer. McCann has fallen into the trap that many young managers do. He will learn a lot from this, but not a Dundee Football Club sadly. 

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I see the points you're trying to make and to a certain extent I agree, but I still don't believe McCann has done anything wrong by making us play the style of football that he wants to implement. Anyone (McCann included) who thought that we would be able to transform into a silky passing football side over the course of a summer is bonkers. Just look at how long it took Pep and his squad of world class players at Man City. I think where McCann really failed is setting over ambitious targets at the start of the season. If he's going to completely transform the way we're playing he should have been brutally honest at the start of the season and admitted that the team are going to make mistakes during the transition, and a bottom half finish is likely. But for him to naively come out and say that we will finish top 6 and get to cup finals etc. was a big mistake and just makes him look like a failure.

I'm still not convinced the experiment has failed, with the youngsters we have coming through, and another window to get rid of the rest of the dross we have I still don't think it's been a failure yet.

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I'm not sure the BOD nor many fans would be happy with .. "This season we're going to make mistakes, write off any top 6 plans you have and we're aiming for 10th" tbh.

I can't really be bothered going through it all again. What I will say is if he's sacked, yet again we can take the mantle as basket case club and fully deserve everything that comes our way with a Houston, Hughes or MacIntyre type appointment.

 

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McCann thinks he is as good as Pep. He isn’t.

Continually blaming players publicly doesn’t work, never has. All he is doing is covering his own deficiencies which he will never admit.

His and his assistants behaviour yesterday was disgraceful but doubt Nelms will do anything. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, WeighorstsWang said:

I'm not sure the BOD nor many fans would be happy with .. "This season we're going to make mistakes, write off any top 6 plans you have and we're aiming for 10th" tbh.

I can't really be bothered going through it all again. What I will say is if he's sacked, yet again we can take the mantle as basket case club and fully deserve everything that comes our way with a Houston, Hughes or MacIntyre type appointment.

 

WW I know you are confident we will be fine (10th at least) from your posts this season, and I have always thought the same. However since the Ross County hammering and subsequent games i truly believe McCann doesn’t know how to get us out this mess. We never play the same team or tactics for 2 games in a row. Our next 4 games might yield 1or 2 points max or more likely 0 points and I feel we will be in play off spot by the split with County breathing down our necks.

Bringing in a new manager now gives them the next 4 games to get shape and tactics set in place for the post spilt games. 

I agree though a Houston Hopkins McIntyre or Hughes will be suicidal.

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I have mixed views on NM's determination to turn the team into a 'passing game' side this season....some games, it's looked great, and other a shambles. The 'brutal' sides aren't faring much better, and will all be in the post-split fight with us. 

However, watching the highlights for the umpteenth time, the passing game & his contentious tactical decisions had little to do with the 4 calamitous goals we lost yesterday....they were all individual player errors, especially the twin howlers for 2, 3 & 4. Meekings & Caulker had nightmares. 

We have 4 hard games to the split, but other than playing each other, both County & Partick also have 3 games each that are entirely 'loseable' to them. My worry is that confidence seems to be eroded & more fundamental decision-making errors are appearing. We had a great chance to score after Curran's run (at 0-1, I think?)....the ball was put in front of Deacon on the edge of the box, with clear sight of goal....rather than shoot first-time, he taks 3 touches, moves wider & narrows his angle & lets 3 defenders get back. This seems fairly typical of how we seem so reluctant to shoot on sight now. 

If we change manager now, the passing game will likely vanish....the new guy might get a 'bounce', but maybe not. If we then stay up, it'll likely be clearout time again.....if we go down, still a clearout, but maybe less coming in as we cut costs.

If we don't change manager & the board insist NM's on a long-term plan they support, we might survive, if he can wind up the players enough & somehow eradicate the howlers. If we go down, he'll continue to push the passing game, but will he retain the players to do it, and in the championship?

I have absolutely no idea how it's going to turn out, but I think I seem to be more concerned about our ability to stay up under any manager, simply because of the way we're losing goals. 

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7 hours ago, WeighorstsWang said:

I'm fairly certain he has apologised and held his hands up for getting it wrong a few times. 

There is a difference about apologising for your mistakes, and learning from them. I sadly do not see our manager learning from his mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, McCann is someone who I admire and no one more than me wanted him to succeed at Dens, but I would rather have Houston than McCann right now. That is how bad things are for me.

You change managers when you are 100% sure that it is not working and the board are sure that the manager has run out of ideas, I believe we are at that stage now. Personally, perception of the club doesn't come at the expense of what league you are in the following season.

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Watching the highlights back we are the architects of our own demise. 

The first goal Jon is slow getting out then deacon doesn’t match the runner.

The 2nd is simply atrocious play from meekings.

The 3rd caulker has no idea where his man is.

The 4th is another simple ball meekings doesn’t deal with then caulker could have done better.

From this point nm has to get the defenders to take no chances and get the ball away from goal.

 

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On 11/03/2018 at 09:32, GregTeamDee said:

We are trying to run before we can walk this season and that is purely down to the manager. To play the ball from the back you need a lot of things that simply we don't have. Last season we were leaking goals for fun, getting beat 7-0 on an occasion. It was naive to think that one summer window, new manager and new players added to a lot of the players from last season could suddenly change our fortunes.  Don't get me wrong there has been two games maybe that I've enjoyed the style of our play, but that isn't not enough. Football is about wining that is all. 

To play the style McCann wants us to play you need; 

1- Strong foundations. Yesterday our defensive pairing were a miles apart. They shouldn't be any further than a goal width apart. You need to make your team hard to beat, start keeping clean sheets and gain confidence. You need a strong aggressive midfield. Only a handful of players would back you up in a fight in our squad. We don't bully teams at all. We lack leadership. 

2/ For his style you need movement in your team. A fluid system where players drop off, make space, making the opposition move out of position. We are the opposite as we are still trying desperately to keep clean sheets hence why we go static.This makes it easy for the opponents and why we go side to side or back with our passes and don't play the forward ball. The players lack confidence because they know we don't have point 1 sorted and are nervous incase we concede first.

3/ For his style you need a wider pitch. Think of the clubs that play possession based football, Barcelona, Celtic, Man City to name a few. They all have wide pitches,why? Because they have movement in their team. The opposition find it difficult to defend and be compact on a wider pitch. You need to stretch the opposition. But we don't have a wide pitch because we are still trying to point 1. Build a strong foundation and be compact (Trying to run before we can walk). 

4/ Recruitment. McCann was left in a mess with some of the Hartley signings, whilst trying to install his style and ethos at the club within 6 weeks during the summer break. This season he should of got point 1, strong foundations sorted first and in time (season 2/3)  implement his style/ethos for his club. It takes time to get all the players you want (unless you have a massive budget to get rid and buy a new team).5/ Tactics is a weak point from McCann, he's overthinking it. For being an analyst for Sky Sports and he was a decent one too, its worrying. He wants to play three at the back because he wants to build strong foundations, but when you play three at the back you are making our weak midfield even weaker and making it easy for the opposition. To play possession football you need that 'extra' man in midfield to help turn the game over.  Playing the three at the back defeats the purpose of his style. 

This league isn't hard. Look at Kilmarnock, they do the basics (point 1) very well and they get points. Steve Clarke and Sean Dyche (Burnley manager) all make their teams hard to beat then over time will implement their style and bring in the correct players. 

 More fans will come to the stadium if we win. Bringing through youth players or signing younger players and giving them a chance is great and should continue but it takes time, you wouldn't expect this style to work after 6 weeks in the summer. McCann has fallen into the trap that many young managers do. He will learn a lot from this, but not a Dundee Football Club sadly. 

“They should,not be any further than a goal width apart”, “a fluid system where players drop of”, “hence we go static”, “ but we don’t have a wide pitch because we are still trying to point 1”.

sorry mate, but you,ve lost me with this drivel, if you are trying to say that McCann should keep it simple and try not to over complicate things, then I agree, but honestly, try to do the same thing  with your posts.  ;)

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On 3/11/2018 at 09:32, GregTeamDee said:

We are trying to run before we can walk this season and that is purely down to the manager. To play the ball from the back you need a lot of things that simply we don't have. Last season we were leaking goals for fun, getting beat 7-0 on an occasion. It was naive to think that one summer window, new manager and new players added to a lot of the players from last season could suddenly change our fortunes.  Don't get me wrong there has been two games maybe that I've enjoyed the style of our play, but that isn't not enough. Football is about wining that is all. 

To play the style McCann wants us to play you need; 

1- Strong foundations. Yesterday our defensive pairing were a miles apart. They shouldn't be any further than a goal width apart. You need to make your team hard to beat, start keeping clean sheets and gain confidence. You need a strong aggressive midfield. Only a handful of players would back you up in a fight in our squad. We don't bully teams at all. We lack leadership. 

2/ For his style you need movement in your team. A fluid system where players drop off, make space, making the opposition move out of position. We are the opposite as we are still trying desperately to keep clean sheets hence why we go static.This makes it easy for the opponents and why we go side to side or back with our passes and don't play the forward ball. The players lack confidence because they know we don't have point 1 sorted and are nervous incase we concede first.

3/ For his style you need a wider pitch. Think of the clubs that play possession based football, Barcelona, Celtic, Man City to name a few. They all have wide pitches,why? Because they have movement in their team. The opposition find it difficult to defend and be compact on a wider pitch. You need to stretch the opposition. But we don't have a wide pitch because we are still trying to point 1. Build a strong foundation and be compact (Trying to run before we can walk). 

4/ Recruitment. McCann was left in a mess with some of the Hartley signings, whilst trying to install his style and ethos at the club within 6 weeks during the summer break. This season he should of got point 1, strong foundations sorted first and in time (season 2/3)  implement his style/ethos for his club. It takes time to get all the players you want (unless you have a massive budget to get rid and buy a new team).

5/ Tactics is a weak point from McCann, he's overthinking it. For being an analyst for Sky Sports and he was a decent one too, its worrying. He wants to play three at the back because he wants to build strong foundations, but when you play three at the back you are making our weak midfield even weaker and making it easy for the opposition. To play possession football you need that 'extra' man in midfield to help turn the game over.  Playing the three at the back defeats the purpose of his style. 

This league isn't hard. Look at Kilmarnock, they do the basics (point 1) very well and they get points. Steve Clarke and Sean Dyche (Burnley manager) all make their teams hard to beat then over time will implement their style and bring in the correct players. 

 More fans will come to the stadium if we win. Bringing through youth players or signing younger players and giving them a chance is great and should continue but it takes time, you wouldn't expect this style to work after 6 weeks in the summer. McCann has fallen into the trap that many young managers do. He will learn a lot from this, but not a Dundee Football Club sadly. 

A well thought out post with some extremely insightful opinion. 

I'll 100% admit that I'm a luddite. The style of football we're aiming for bores me senseless, but if we can employ it and bring success then I'll suck it up.

3 hours ago, Derekgow said:

“They should,not be any further than a goal width apart”, “a fluid system where players drop of”, “hence we go static”, “ but we don’t have a wide pitch because we are still trying to point 1”.

sorry mate, but you,ve lost me with this drivel, if you are trying to say that McCann should keep it simple and try not to over complicate things, then I agree, but honestly, try to do the same thing  with your posts.  ;)

This may well be the least constructive post I've read on here. And that's going some.

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