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Billy Campbell's Ghost

Officials Pick On Poor Accies,

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To be fair, we (by that I mean every other team in Scotland) moan about an OF bias so while I don't exactly agree with him I can see where he's coming from.

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8 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

To be fair, we (by that I mean every other team in Scotland) moan about an OF bias so while I don't exactly agree with him I can see where he's coming from.

I could understand if Canning was complaining about the state of the artificial pitch at New Douglas Park which in my opinion is a disaster of an artificial pitch.

I watched the Alloa v Ayr United game last Sunday on BBC Alba and the artificial pitch looked like a grass pitch at the start of the season.

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The Darren Lyon red card against Celtic should not have been a red. Celtic were given a penalty against us in the Cup when Sinclair ran into Hendry and then dived. When Celtic's unbeaten run was about to end at Motherwell Collum gave them a last minute penalty after McGregor threw himself to the ground.

Accies can't blame the officials for the fact that they've picked up 0 points out of the last 18 but I think some refs are giving Celtic soft decisions. Whether it's to avoid criticism from the press and social media I don't know but there seems to be a lack of fairness at times when Celtic are playing.

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I think Accies are one of a few clubs who are very lucky with the volume of (blatant to all but the officials) fouling, pushing, niggling, clogging & everything else that's not within the Laws, that they get away with, game after game.

Canning's just trying this on to see if he can put pressure on officials to be lenient with them for the next 4 games, nothing to do with the OF.

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5 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

I think Accies are one of a few clubs who are very lucky with the volume of (blatant to all but the officials) fouling, pushing, niggling, clogging & everything else that's not within the Laws, that they get away with, game after game.

Canning's just trying this on to see if he can put pressure on officials to be lenient with them for the next 4 games, nothing to do with the OF.

Yeah, you might have a point.

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5 hours ago, WoodStein said:

Canning's just trying this on to see if he can put pressure on officials to be lenient with them for the next 4 games, nothing to do with the OF.

Perhaps he learned that from Sir Alex...

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11 hours ago, Cobra said:

The Darren Lyon red card against Celtic should not have been a red. Celtic were given a penalty against us in the Cup when Sinclair ran into Hendry and then dived. When Celtic's unbeaten run was about to end at Motherwell Collum gave them a last minute penalty after McGregor threw himself to the ground.

Accies can't blame the officials for the fact that they've picked up 0 points out of the last 18 but I think some refs are giving Celtic soft decisions. Whether it's to avoid criticism from the press and social media I don't know but there seems to be a lack of fairness at times when Celtic are playing.

Celtic generally get the ball into the opposition penalty area much more than the other team. Therefore it makes sense that they get more penalties. There is more to it than that though of course.

I don't think there is any intentional bias. It's got to be in the back of the referees mind though that when they give a crucial decision against Celtic it's going to come under intense scrutiny, with the papers calling for the ref to be demoted. It's human nature then to only give a crucial decision against them if they're 100% certain. I doubt a referee is too bothered about criticism from Martin Canning though. So decisions against these teams are easier for the referee to give. There is less pressure so they'll happily give a decision if they "think" its right.

At the end of the day you can maybe go out of a cup because of a refereeing decision. In the league though, over 38 games, you'll finish exactly where you deserve to.

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6 minutes ago, Edin_Dee said:

Celtic generally get the ball into the opposition penalty area much more than the other team. Therefore it makes sense that they get more penalties. There is more to it than that though of course.

I don't think there is any intentional bias. It's got to be in the back of the referees mind though that when they give a crucial decision against Celtic it's going to come under intense scrutiny, with the papers calling for the ref to be demoted. It's human nature then to only give a crucial decision against them if they're 100% certain. I doubt a referee is too bothered about criticism from Martin Canning though. So decisions against these teams are easier for the referee to give. There is less pressure so they'll happily give a decision if they "think" its right.

At the end of the day you can maybe go out of a cup because of a refereeing decision. In the league though, over 38 games, you'll finish exactly where you deserve to.

I don't think referees are biased in favour of Celtic but I do believe certain officials can be weak in big moments during games and err on the side of caution by favouring the Old Firm.

Not sure I agree you end up exactly where you deserve to be in the league. Did Livingston deserve to finish above Dundee after breaking the rules? Did Dundee deserve to have their hopes of survival ended by a Pawlett dive? Relegation can be decided by something totally outwith your control although it's fair to say it's your own fault if you end up in a relegation battle.

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17 minutes ago, Edin_Dee said:

Celtic generally get the ball into the opposition penalty area much more than the other team. Therefore it makes sense that they get more penalties. There is more to it than that though of course.

I don't think there is any intentional bias. It's got to be in the back of the referees mind though that when they give a crucial decision against Celtic it's going to come under intense scrutiny, with the papers calling for the ref to be demoted. It's human nature then to only give a crucial decision against them if they're 100% certain. I doubt a referee is too bothered about criticism from Martin Canning though. So decisions against these teams are easier for the referee to give. There is less pressure so they'll happily give a decision if they "think" its right.

At the end of the day you can maybe go out of a cup because of a refereeing decision. In the league though, over 38 games, you'll finish exactly where you deserve to.

Take your sensible talk somewhere else ED! :)

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25 minutes ago, Edin_Dee said:

Celtic generally get the ball into the opposition penalty area much more than the other team. Therefore it makes sense that they get more penalties. There is more to it than that though of course.

I don't think there is any intentional bias. It's got to be in the back of the referees mind though that when they give a crucial decision against Celtic it's going to come under intense scrutiny, with the papers calling for the ref to be demoted. It's human nature then to only give a crucial decision against them if they're 100% certain. I doubt a referee is too bothered about criticism from Martin Canning though. So decisions against these teams are easier for the referee to give. There is less pressure so they'll happily give a decision if they "think" its right.

At the end of the day you can maybe go out of a cup because of a refereeing decision. In the league though, over 38 games, you'll finish exactly where you deserve to.

I di agree with the first part. With regards to the second, I think it's it's quite possible to be unlucky over 38 games! Say that 10 games a season a season have a critical decision to be made of some sort (whether that be a dubious foul, red card, offside, goal-line clearance - anything that could even be really small but also decisive), that's 100 decisive games over 10 years where controversial refereeing decisions will decide a game. Flip a coin a hundred times though and you'll find that you have a very very high probability of getting a streak of 7 in that either way. It's very possible that in a decade or so you could have a lucky or unlucky season that is decisive. I thought we had some very fortunate decisions last season tbh.

There's always mistakes but there's no conspiracy with it. Scottish referees really aren't bad IMO. I can't find the study right now but I remember there was a huge data analysis where people took quite a large sample of Scottish matches and analysed refereeing decisions, it actually come out that the error margin was relatively low and there wasn't any real beneficiary overall with the Old Firm possessing the highest number of bad decisions to go both for them or against them (like you say, bigger pressure decisions that are more awkward to call).

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10 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I di agree with the first part. With regards to the second, I think it's it's quite possible to be unlucky over 38 games! Say that 10 games a season a season have a critical decision to be made of some sort (whether that be a dubious foul, red card, offside, goal-line clearance - anything that could even be really small but also decisive), that's 100 decisive games over 10 years where controversial refereeing decisions will decide a game. Flip a coin a hundred times though and you'll find that you have a very very high probability of getting a streak of 7 in that either way. It's very possible that in a decade or so you could have a lucky or unlucky season that is decisive. I thought we had some very fortunate decisions last season tbh.

There's always mistakes but there's no conspiracy with it. Scottish referees really aren't bad IMO. I can't find the study right now but I remember there was a huge data analysis where people took quite a large sample of Scottish matches and analysed refereeing decisions, it actually come out that the error margin was relatively low and there wasn't any real beneficiary overall with the Old Firm possessing the highest number of bad decisions to go both for them or against them (like you say, bigger pressure decisions that are more awkward to call).

Well that’s ruined it for the conspiracy theorists harry, think you’re right though, we are quick to single out Scottish refs for criticism, myself included, at times,. Probably down to the amount of games we lose. I often wonder if Celtic supporters criticise refs as much as us.

Edited by Derekgow

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I don't think there is a conspiracy but it's impossible to know what goes on behind closed doors. It wasn't so long ago that the SFA Chief Executive was fired after it was found that he conspired to prevent Jorge Cadete playing for Celtic against Rangers in a cup semi-final. If the guy at the very top can be corrupt it's not inconceivable that those below him are dishonest.

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They've got a cheek to think there could be a conspiracy. 10-2 final day springs to mind. THAT was a conspiracy. 

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4 hours ago, Cobra said:

I don't think referees are biased in favour of Celtic but I do believe certain officials can be weak in big moments during games and err on the side of caution by favouring the Old Firm.

Not sure I agree you end up exactly where you deserve to be in the league. Did Livingston deserve to finish above Dundee after breaking the rules? Did Dundee deserve to have their hopes of survival ended by a Pawlett dive? Relegation can be decided by something totally outwith your control although it's fair to say it's your own fault if you end up in a relegation battle.

Livingston deserved to have a points deduction for cheating the system. Then again we didn't deserve to stay up. We were relegated because we had a complete a**e collapse. Our own failings were the real reason we went down. It would have been a huge stoke of luck if we'd avoided relegation on a technicality.

Pawletts dive might have been the final nail in the coffin for us but we were relegated because of our p*ss poor displays before Brown was appointed. If the players had shown the same fight all season as in the last few games they might not have gone down.

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43 minutes ago, Edin_Dee said:

Livingston deserved to have a points deduction for cheating the system. Then again we didn't deserve to stay up. We were relegated because we had a complete a**e collapse. Our own failings were the real reason we went down. It would have been a huge stoke of luck if we'd avoided relegation on a technicality.

Pawletts dive might have been the final nail in the coffin for us but we were relegated because of our p*ss poor displays before Brown was appointed. If the players had shown the same fight all season as in the last few games they might not have gone down.

If we go into the final game of the season two points ahead of Partick and they get given a last-minute penalty for a foul well outside the box, you couldn't say Partick deserve to finish 10th and Dundee deserve to finish 11th.

It would be our fault we left ourselves vulnerable to going down but bad luck and dodgy refereeing calls can be the difference between staying up and going down.

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Ive always maintained the opinion that if you go down its because you deserve to go down.

A season is a season , not 1 game where we got a bad decision , no matter how crucial.

 

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