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The Set-Up of the Scottish Premiership. Is It Not Time for Considering Changes?


Gedee

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It has just about becone a "given" in the Premiersip who will be fighting out the Top Six for the order of top places & what six Clubs will be left to fight out (& avoid relegation)

I am NOT gonna say the whole conceptt disnae make, for an exciting Permiership battle ... But it also makes a mockery (imo) of the meaning (for want o' a better word)  the elite Clubs of Scotland. Just a few days ago, one of the "expected" lower finishing Clubs, on making a prediction oN where his Club will finish at the end of the season, said something along the lines of ... "Make no mistake, we wll be aiming for this last, top six place. But we realise, so will the other six clubs, it's not gonna be easy"

Obviously having Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Rangers, makes for an exciting league, with the prspect of exciting games (between themselves & the lower teams) ... But have I got this wrong/ Is there no' something daft aboot a Division, where before the season has even started, the majoity of managers, have alredy given up on any real idea of hitting Top Four ...

BUT DREAM ABOOT, FIGHTING FOR/OR EVEN SNEAKING INTO, THE LAST TOP SIX PLACE?

The present situation/set-up, has a lot going for it. I don't know how, but can we not do better?

Know part/most of this argument has been aired before. But is there NOT a better alternative?

Is there not a way to make it14/16 division? Or even Two Divisions of 10?    "Discussion Topic"

(Because I am seeing this mainly fae DFC's perspective I've added this to Dundee FC Section)

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tbh, I think that whatever league system you are playing, you will always have those teams dominant. In previous years, almost all of those clubs were a complete shambles and closer to the relegation zone rather than the top half (Hibs going down through the play-offs, Hearts/Rangers had insolvency events, Aberdeen being a general disaster before McInnes and spared relegation on a technicality etc). It doesn't correlate with the league system from what I can see, it's more how well run they are IMO.

If you're looking at alternatives, the sad fact of the matter is that if you are looking at increasing the league size (beyond 14), you are actively agreeing to immediately sacrifice a major contribution in TV money (4 Old Firm games is hugely important to the TV market) and then you are splitting this limited pot over more top flight teams. To maintain a competitive level of financing (so all 16/18 teams could compete), the second tier would go back to the massive financial gulf that it was before 2013 with 2 big clubs taken out of the division AND clubs on the cusp of barely managing to afford full-time football having to reverse that or find a sugardaddy.

I understand the arguments that people make about having a nice 16/18 team league but I don't think the financial realities should be understated. We would survive and get a TV deal of some sort but when clubs like ourselves have deficits that quite often hit £500k a season, you are maybe then cutting 20% of your income (which is quite a conservative estimate) in prize money and gambling that one day you'll cash in on these nice ideas (despite there being absolutely no evidence to suggest that this is true and all analysis pretty much concluding that meaningful gates is always directly proportional to playing for things).

I wouldn't have any great objection if we did go up to 14 though. I think the split might be more awkward than it is now but if there was popular demand behind it, it looks like a workable compromise. The only way it is workable though would be with a split of some sort though so I don't see it changing a huge amount. Self-preservation is why I wouldn't want to see the league size go down!

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I am for 16 playing twice a season and sacrificng the OF games. It would help our clubs in Europe, help the national side and mean less wear and tear on players.

TV is killing it for me as a season ticket holder who misses around 6 games a season due to ko time changes. The customer comes last in this business and that is not sustainable in an age where numerous interests compete for our time and cash.

Let the tv companies suck it up and decide if they wanna pay for it. Competition is there for Sky and BT such as Quest, Ch 5, Amazon, Netflix, etc. Lets woo them all to the table. Nothing ventured......

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Just now, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

I am for 16 playing twice a season and sacrificng the OF games. It would help our clubs in Europe, help the national side and mean less wear and tear on players.

TV is killing it for me as a season ticket holder who misses around 6 games a season due to ko time changes. The customer comes last in this business and that is not sustainable in an age where numerous interests compete for our time and cash.

Let the tv companies suck it up and decide if they wanna pay for it. Competition is there for Sky and BT such as Quest, Ch 5, Amazon, Netflix, etc. Lets woo them all to the table. Nothing ventured......

Spot on BCG

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1 minute ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

Let the tv companies suck it up and decide if they wanna pay for it. Competition is there for Sky and BT such as Quest, Ch 5, Amazon, Netflix, etc. Lets woo them all to the table. Nothing ventured......

1

Aberdeen V Dundee on Sky last season reached 37,000 viewers. To put that into perspective, 5 year old repeats of Storage Hunters on Dave get 100k. Unfortunately, the only thing we have approaching anything of value in terms of the economics of TV is Old Firm games - without them, we're not really worth anyone's time at the numbers anywhere close to what we're getting.

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4 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

I am for 16 playing twice a season and sacrificing the OF games. It would help our clubs in Europe, help the national side and mean less wear and tear on players.

TV is killing it for me as a season ticket holder who misses around 6 games a season due to ko time changes. The customer comes last in this business and that is not sustainable in an age where numerous interests compete for our time and cash.

Let the tv companies suck it up and decide if they wanna pay for it. Competition is there for Sky and BT such as Quest, Ch 5, Amazon, Netflix, etc. Lets woo them all to the table. Nothing ventured......

We don't benefit from Old Firm games so obviously we're happy to sacrifice them.

Do you think anyone at Ibrox, Parkhead, Sky or BT is going to accept Old Firm games being scrapped and replaced by Queen of the South v Celtic and Morton v Rangers? It's never going to happen.

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14 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

Let the tv companies suck it up and decide if they wanna pay for it. Competition is there for Sky and BT such as Quest, Ch 5, Amazon, Netflix, etc. Lets woo them all to the table. Nothing ventured......

I suspect the quality of product on offer is not that attractive - less so with fewer OF games - so we have limited wooing power

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33 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Aberdeen V Dundee on Sky last season reached 37,000 viewers. To put that into perspective, 5 year old repeats of Storage Hunters on Dave get 100k. Unfortunately, the only thing we have approaching anything of value in terms of the economics of TV is Old Firm games - without them, we're not really worth anyone's time at the numbers anywhere close to what we're getting.

Spot on mate. It's the brutal truth but regardless of how entertaining it is to us and maybe another 50 thousand fellow scots - it's not worth anyone else's time or money to invest in the Scottish game without Celtic and Rangers. For example Barnsley v Leeds in the English 2nd Tier had 450k viewers 

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Stirring the hornets nest wi this ane Gedeee!

Our game is not run for the good of the sport.This is the problem.It is run short sightedly to maximise money for the top teams.The likes of Celtic(and others) bemoan the fact that the champions league is a cartel-inhibiting new teams breaking through and replacing some of the historic "big teams".Yet this is precisely what goes on at the domestic level.

The argument about 4 "old firm" games  (was,nt one of them being liquadated?-sorry,that,s been rewritten) being used to attract more tv money or our game would suffer financially is often wheeled out.But the fact is ,under the current system,our game is slowly dying-witness the number of people going to the smaller clubs-this is the life blood of the game.People will stop going eventually,as they will see there is on chance of winning anything!

Before anyone,says,but in the real world-the americans addressed this in their sport,so as to avoid the same team/s winning everything.Sadly our authorities will never see the bigger picture,untilthe whole thing implodes.And don,t get me started on the corruption in the gemme!

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1 hour ago, harry94 said:

tbh, I think that whatever league system you are playing, you will always have those teams dominant. In previous years, almost all of those clubs were a complete shambles and closer to the relegation zone rather than the top half (Hibs going down through the play-offs, Hearts/Rangers had insolvency events, Aberdeen being a general disaster before McInnes and spared relegation on a technicality etc). It doesn't correlate with the league system from what I can see, it's more how well run they are IMO.

If you're looking at alternatives, the sad fact of the matter is that if you are looking at increasing the league size (beyond 14), you are actively agreeing to immediately sacrifice a major contribution in TV money (4 Old Firm games is hugely important to the TV market) and then you are splitting this limited pot over more top flight teams. To maintain a competitive level of financing (so all 16/18 teams could compete), the second tier would go back to the massive financial gulf that it was before 2013 with 2 big clubs taken out of the division AND clubs on the cusp of barely managing to afford full-time football having to reverse that or find a sugardaddy.

I understand the arguments that people make about having a nice 16/18 team league but I don't think the financial realities should be understated. We would survive and get a TV deal of some sort but when clubs like ourselves have deficits that quite often hit £500k a season, you are maybe then cutting 20% of your income (which is quite a conservative estimate) in prize money and gambling that one day you'll cash in on these nice ideas (despite there being absolutely no evidence to suggest that this is true and all analysis pretty much concluding that meaningful gates is always directly proportional to playing for things).

I wouldn't have any great objection if we did go up to 14 though. I think the split might be more awkward than it is now but if there was popular demand behind it, it looks like a workable compromise. The only way it is workable though would be with a split of some sort though so I don't see it changing a huge amount. Self-preservation is why I wouldn't want to see the league size go down!

As we have all come to expect Harry .... Another helpful, well researched & detailed response.

Take a wee bit more time for my aulder brain to absorb it all, but as always ...Thank you freend.

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Personally I think our league is quite exciting. It's just the Scottish way to be doom and gloom about it. Is football in comparably sized Countries to ours any better. I would say not.

A change to 14 or 16 league is seen as the answer to all Scottish footballs problems. The only thing that would definitely mean is there would be less money in the game. I get playing Hamilton can get a bit tedious after a fourth time but swapping that third/fourth game to play the likes of Queen of the South instead would hardly be a game changer.

 

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