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The Big Dundee Discussion Thread


Mr Sensible

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4 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

Correct DBK. We all know the club lost the money and FPS covered the finances by purchase of unissued shares - net loss to the club? Not much if anything.

It doesn't make it right though and the overall losses are due to deep rooted problems at the club that are costing us season ticket holders and PATG walk ups. FPS' strategy for the club isn't working and as they caused the losses it's right they cover them.

Hi PB,

According to the Companies House website all the unissued shares in Dundee Football Club Limited have now been issued with the final tranche issued in August 2018.

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16 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

I've posted my concerns many times and they're pretty much in alignment with most of yours.

My biggest concern is that I genuinely believe the whole new stadium thing has been a big con since it was first mooted - it was the one thing guaranteed to split the fans then see them come back together again after the realisation by the doubters that Dens is a tip. I'm just waiting for the end game that will kill it dead just before FPS exit.

Next is John Nelms - he appointed a rookie manager when the world and its dog could see we needed experience in. Very weak leadership. I'm not concerned about the manager; he's a dead man walking right now and even FPS must already be looking at the next appointment.

Debt I'm not concerned about right now as long as FPS cover it - I am concerned that they are covering it by issuing shares that only they can buy thus weakening the percentage shares of other significant holders. I'm concerned they're getting in deeper and deeper and haven't a clue how to get out.

Chomp has expressed opinions, although often sickeningly political correct, plenty times and has asked you a direct question and you didn't answer it - is there any aspect of being a Dundee supporter that you ARE happy with?

For me I'm happy with Dee Promotions and the youth set up, Cammy Kerr, and Kamara.

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2 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I'm genuinely really curious - what sort of con do you think that they are playing?

I can understand being sceptical about it given how these things are not straightforward so I do accept that it may not happen but I just don't see who it benefits to the extent that they'd paid £1.2 million (IIRC) for something out of their own pocket and then invested time and resources (i.e. for the architects and starting several processes) to get it off the ground. As far as I can see, they call the shots and could end the funding tomorrow if they wanted to?

They needed fans buy in. Dens is a tip. Easy way to raise excitement is to promise a new stadium - after all the mugs have fallen for big promises before, just watch them flock to buy season tickets.

It's backfiring though because their reluctance to engage has resulted in scepticism and their poor management of the club has driven many fans away. Maybe con is a strong word but then maybe the new stadium depends on increasing the number of people that might want to go there? Say by maybe 1,000 or so for this season.

They do call the shots but ultimately without us they have nothing.

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1 hour ago, DarkBlueKnight said:

The difficulty is tho that reducing costs inevitably means reducing wage bill as it’s a major outgoing. That means less “proven” players, players from Lower leagues, players with history of injury struggling for a deal. We have seen the response- not a player , shyte,not a manager, not a striker, not DFC standard, I’m not paying to watch that etc etc- so then what reduce ticket prices - to how low ? Will people pay £15 to see  the team lose regularly ? A tenner? 

PATG Dundee supporters are currently paying £24/£26 to watch their team losing at home this season. The only home game that Dundee have won so far this season was against Brechin City in the League Cup and they struggled to win 2-0 against a team who were beaten at home in their previous game by Dunfermline 1-7.

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13 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I'm genuinely really curious - what sort of con do you think that they are playing?

I can understand being sceptical about it given how these things are not straightforward so I do accept that it may not happen but I just don't see who it benefits to the extent that they'd paid £1.2 million (IIRC) for something out of their own pocket and then invested time and resources (i.e. for the architects and starting several processes) to get it off the ground. As far as I can see, they call the shots and could end the funding tomorrow if they wanted to?

I'm the same, I don't get why some don't think FPS want to build a new stadium. Its not just going to be a new stadium, there's going to be other facilities and we'll be a small but significant part of it all. 

I've been cynical from day one about what Keyes Investments motives are with us but they have been putting their hands in their pockets. I'm more concerned that once they get the stadium (and other assets) they'll not need us so much and happy to sell DFC on while still getting paid by the club to use THEIR shiny new stadium. I'm sure they'd be happy if we weren't the only tenants either.

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32 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

I've posted my concerns many times and they're pretty much in alignment with most of yours.

My biggest concern is that I genuinely believe the whole new stadium thing has been a big con since it was first mooted - it was the one thing guaranteed to split the fans then see them come back together again after the realisation by the doubters that Dens is a tip. I'm just waiting for the end game that will kill it dead just before FPS exit.

Next is John Nelms - he appointed a rookie manager when the world and its dog could see we needed experience in. Very weak leadership. I'm not concerned about the manager; he's a dead man walking right now and even FPS must already be looking at the next appointment.

Debt I'm not concerned about right now as long as FPS cover it - I am concerned that they are covering it by issuing shares that only they can buy thus weakening the percentage shares of other significant holders. I'm concerned they're getting in deeper and deeper and haven't a clue how to get out.

Chomp has expressed opinions, although often sickeningly political correct, plenty times and has asked you a direct question and you didn't answer it - is there any aspect of being a Dundee supporter that you ARE happy with?

Good post....the debt will only be covered for so long, the way they get out is by washing there hands if the stadium falls through.

No sure you can be happy about much these days, the manager should have been sacked months ago and that has an indirect impact on everything else...

We have lost 10 games out of 11 to full time teams this season, never thought id see a worse manager than Coco, but boy he is giving him a run for his money...

Anything your genuinely happy about? 

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24 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

They needed fans buy in. Dens is a tip. Easy way to raise excitement is to promise a new stadium - after all the mugs have fallen for big promises before, just watch them flock to buy season tickets.

It's backfiring though because their reluctance to engage has resulted in scepticism and their poor management of the club has driven many fans away. Maybe con is a strong word but then maybe the new stadium depends on increasing the number of people that might want to go there? Say by maybe 1,000 or so for this season.

They do call the shots but ultimately without us they have nothing.

I see where you are coming from but if that's the intention, there are far cheaper ways of doing this than going through the trouble of transferring seven digits and putting a considerable amount towards architect fees. They could have made fantasy big-money bids for players or even put some of that cash towards real serious signings - even a redevelopment of Dens could have actually been seen as more popular if they were going down that route. If it was a cover, perhaps they would have went up to Camperdown and planted a big Dundee FC logo on Islays sign. Nelms does the occasional interview where he gets asked and is always positive and they could have brought this to the fore much more forcefully if they wanted to. Their actions don't really seem showman like to me and they do seem to be putting the hours in on the project.

There may be some sort of secret asterisk next to the plan about crowds but even then, the club would be putting rent towards Dark Blue Holdings regardless and they could always just pull their overdraft facility at the club and de facto leave it to their own devices in the future.

I get that there's always a reason to be sceptical when someone wants to invest in a Scottish Football team but they've put in a huge amount of money so far and had nothing in return. There are much more productive uses of their time and money than buying a club on the other side of the Atlantic and incurring all of the liabilities which accumulate when owning a poor Scottish team with no assets.

Like Chomp, I'm concerned about the realities of what a stadium will mean for the club when it still wouldn't be ours and am a bit sceptical of the pledge to basically informally group the club together with Dark Blue Holdings but I think that the project is very real and FPS do (or at least, have had) intend to build it. Whether the rumours are true and we'll see any movement soon or it is the case that there are now economic issues or a change of heart, I don't know. They are a secretive bunch who don't like sharing when it's absolutely necessary so I can see why it drives this train of thought but never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

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41 minutes ago, Mr Sensible said:

Good post....the debt will only be covered for so long, the way they get out is by washing there hands if the stadium falls through.

No sure you can be happy about much these days, the manager should have been sacked months ago and that has an indirect impact on everything else...

We have lost 10 games out of 11 to full time teams this season, never thought id see a worse manager than Coco, but boy he is giving him a run for his money...

Anything your genuinely happy about? 

No there isn't.

And you?

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16 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I see where you are coming from but if that's the intention, there are far cheaper ways of doing this than going through the trouble of transferring seven digits and putting a considerable amount towards architect fees. They could have made fantasy big-money bids for players or even put some of that cash towards real serious signings - even a redevelopment of Dens could have actually been seen as more popular if they were going down that route. If it was a cover, perhaps they would have went up to Camperdown and planted a big Dundee FC logo on Islays sign. Nelms does the occasional interview where he gets asked and is always positive and they could have brought this to the fore much more forcefully if they wanted to. Their actions don't really seem showman like to me and they do seem to be putting the hours in on the project.

There may be some sort of secret asterisk next to the plan about crowds but even then, the club would be putting rent towards Dark Blue Holdings regardless and they could always just pull their overdraft facility at the club and de facto leave it to their own devices in the future.

I get that there's always a reason to be sceptical when someone wants to invest in a Scottish Football team but they've put in a huge amount of money so far and had nothing in return. There are much more productive uses of their time and money than buying a club on the other side of the Atlantic and incurring all of the liabilities which accumulate when owning a poor Scottish team with no assets.

Like Chomp, I'm concerned about the realities of what a stadium will mean for the club when it still wouldn't be ours and am a bit sceptical of the pledge to basically informally group the club together with Dark Blue Holdings but I think that the project is very real and FPS do (or at least, have had) intend to build it. Whether the rumours are true and we'll see any movement soon or it is the case that there are now economic issues or a change of heart, I don't know. They are a secretive bunch who don't like sharing when it's absolutely necessary so I can see why it drives this train of thought but never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

There is an architect, and a very committed Dundee FC fan at that, on the BoD at Dens and I'm pretty sure his company has done all the design work we've seen so far. I wonder just how much has been spent on architect fees.

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1 hour ago, islaydarkblue said:

PATG Dundee supporters are currently paying £24/£26 to watch their team losing at home this season. The only home game that Dundee have won so far this season was against Brechin City in the League Cup and they struggled to win 2-0 against a team who were beaten at home in their previous game by Dunfermline 1-7.

So your suggestion is Islay?

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3 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I see where you are coming from but if that's the intention, there are far cheaper ways of doing this than going through the trouble of transferring seven digits and putting a considerable amount towards architect fees. They could have made fantasy big-money bids for players or even put some of that cash towards real serious signings - even a redevelopment of Dens could have actually been seen as more popular if they were going down that route. If it was a cover, perhaps they would have went up to Camperdown and planted a big Dundee FC logo on Islays sign. Nelms does the occasional interview where he gets asked and is always positive and they could have brought this to the fore much more forcefully if they wanted to. Their actions don't really seem showman like to me and they do seem to be putting the hours in on the project.

There may be some sort of secret asterisk next to the plan about crowds but even then, the club would be putting rent towards Dark Blue Holdings regardless and they could always just pull their overdraft facility at the club and de facto leave it to their own devices in the future.

I get that there's always a reason to be sceptical when someone wants to invest in a Scottish Football team but they've put in a huge amount of money so far and had nothing in return. There are much more productive uses of their time and money than buying a club on the other side of the Atlantic and incurring all of the liabilities which accumulate when owning a poor Scottish team with no assets.

Like Chomp, I'm concerned about the realities of what a stadium will mean for the club when it still wouldn't be ours and am a bit sceptical of the pledge to basically informally group the club together with Dark Blue Holdings but I think that the project is very real and FPS do (or at least, have had) intend to build it. Whether the rumours are true and we'll see any movement soon or it is the case that there are now economic issues or a change of heart, I don't know. They are a secretive bunch who don't like sharing when it's absolutely necessary so I can see why it drives this train of thought but never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

My new favourite phrase Harry.

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