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Cobra

Video Assistant Referees

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Video assistant referees  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Should VAR be introduced for the start of next season in Scotland?



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2 minutes ago, barkblue said:

Do they take corners at Wimbledon?? 😉 

No but I do believe the have "Hawkeye" you know that camera thingy they have that decides whether the ball is touching the line at any point .  Pretty sure there is a few corners though although my knowledge of tennis is sketchy at best...👍

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51 minutes ago, Janny62 said:

No but I do believe the have "Hawkeye" you know that camera thingy they have that decides whether the ball is touching the line at any point .  Pretty sure there is a few corners though although my knowledge of tennis is sketchy at best...👍

Back in the 60s and 70s, players basically fought with each other on the park and we called it football. As the game has become 'saner', so the stuff like simulation, time wasting, shepherding the ball out of play, stealing a few yards and the like have become the new 'cheating'. Not placing the ball in the arc is just the latest way of bending the rules. It's all pretty pathetic to be honest. 

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15 minutes ago, barkblue said:

Back in the 60s and 70s, players basically fought with each other on the park and we called it football. As the game has become 'saner', so the stuff like simulation, time wasting, shepherding the ball out of play, stealing a few yards and the like have become the new 'cheating'. Not placing the ball in the arc is just the latest way of bending the rules. It's all pretty pathetic to be honest. 

Agreed, it is pathetic...

 

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Agreeed but it perhaps takes the ball away from the corner flag so less chance of the player kicking the flag post.....it has happened!

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3 hours ago, Janny62 said:

Just another case of players pushing rules to the boundaries.....don't know when this actually changed but back in the day when I played I never once felt the need for  another couple of inches to make it easier to put in a cross from a corner....it's possible this evolved from the tennis at Wimbledon ...not sure but it does my head in....

It's never changed, that's one of the original laws of Association Football....it's the same "whole of the ball" principle as in other laws. 

It's understandable for determining if a ball is 'over the goal line' or 'out of the pitch', especially when goal-line technology uses 'birds-eye view'....but I agree that it seems daft that players feel the need to move the ball an inch at a corner.

I remember, on council/junior pitches, it was common to take the ball slightly back inside the quarter, so that it was sitting on relatively flat grass, instead of being in the inch-deep rut where the lines were (or the 3-inch hole that was the penalty spot!). There was a 'fine art' to using the rut to put some top-spin on a corner, but more often, the ball would fly up & bounce towards the middle of the box :)   

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On 16/11/2018 at 11:47, Cobra said:

If we had VAR Jordan Jones would stayed on his feet, and for that reason alone I want to see it asap.

Sounds like we're waiting for the cost to come down before we get it in Scotland though. Apparently £1m a year is needed to have it in the Prem for next season and the money isn't there. Wasn't hard for the Dutch to find the money mind you and that's a hardly a rich league. 

It'd be interesting to see how much money was needed in start up v long-term (and if they are hoovering some money like training costs - which would be ongoing anyway - into that figure).

Goal line technology is £250k + £15k for Fifa to do the necessary tests and approve it's use. That's an insane amount of money for what is pretty primitive technology (installing it at every top flight ground + Hampden would be about 10% of the TV deal for one year from 2020). I think that's just about doable (since it'd be a long-term investment) but it does show you the sort of money we're talking about.

I do think it'd be nice to see the initial investment there and maybe a trialing of VAR for Scottish Cup matches but the will isn't there unfortunately. Doncaster is never going to come out in favour of it when it's against what the members want and I think it's quite convenient for the league to have him as the face of that.

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I have to admit that I don't like VAR. I don't like the way it breaks the game up. I don't like that, so far, it has done little to remove the mistakes from officials (if anything it has highlighted just how wrong they can be when watching the same footage the rest of us are seeing). As I paying punter I don't want to sit around for 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there as someone in a booth talks away and scrolls back and forth through footage I can't see, to then have a decision taken that I'll need to 'review' at home to understand exactly what's gone on. 

And yet, so far this season the officials in the Scottish top flight have been so inept that I'm now in favour of anything that takes away some of the authority they have. 

Goal line technology is a must. VAR is probably a necessary evil when you witness some of the garbage decisions (for and against us) taking place on a weekly basis these days. 

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Had a look at which nations are using VAR and Germany, France, Italy, Spain, England, Portugal, Holland, Turkey, Czech Republic, Russia, South Korea, China, USA, Mexico, Australia, Argentina, Qatar and Saudi have it, are getting it or are currently testing it.

Belgium and Poland have VAR but curiously they only use it for high-profile games.

In Brazil the clubs voted 12-8 against bringing in VAR purely because of cost.

Scotland's "we're not testing it and we doubt it's actually of any benefit" attitude appears to be quite unique. You wonder if it's just a cover for the real reason (cost) because the rest of the world doesn't seem confused about whether it actually helps.

It's interesting that no clubs are talking about it. That leads me to believe they've agreed to let Doncaster make the problem go away for now.

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2 minutes ago, Cobra said:

Had a look at which nations are using VAR and Germany, France, Italy, Spain, England, Portugal, Holland, Turkey, Czech Republic, Russia, South Korea, China, USA, Mexico, Australia, Argentina, Qatar and Saudi have it, are getting it or are currently testing it.

Belgium and Poland have VAR but curiously they only use it for high-profile games.

In Brazil the clubs voted 12-8 against bringing in VAR purely because of cost.

Scotland's "we're not testing it and we doubt it's actually of any benefit" attitude appears to be quite unique. You wonder if it's just a cover for the real reason (cost) because the rest of the world doesn't seem confused about whether it actually helps.

It's interesting that no clubs are talking about it. That leads me to believe they've agreed to let Doncaster make the problem go away for now.

When you consider just how many managers have complained about the decisions in games this season, and the retrospective action taken/not taken, that would seem to be a reasonably fair assumption mate. 

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21 minutes ago, barkblue said:

When you consider just how many managers have complained about the decisions in games this season, and the retrospective action taken/not taken, that would seem to be a reasonably fair assumption mate. 

Agree with this, and would add that for many teams, not of course ours, there is an evening out of the decisions. The bottom teams always get rubbish decisions because the refs prefer to kick a team that's down rather than risk upsetting one of the bigger teams. you would think that it was in the interests of the smaller teams to have VAR im[plemented as a way of getting fair treatment from refs. Getting it installed and paid for as a national policy is an absolute no brainer for all the wee teams IMO.

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42 minutes ago, BCram said:

Agree with this, and would add that for many teams, not of course ours, there is an evening out of the decisions. The bottom teams always get rubbish decisions because the refs prefer to kick a team that's down rather than risk upsetting one of the bigger teams. you would think that it was in the interests of the smaller teams to have VAR im[plemented as a way of getting fair treatment from refs. Getting it installed and paid for as a national policy is an absolute no brainer for all the wee teams IMO.

St Mirren saw Killie and Celtic players collapsing like a sack of spuds at Dens in our box and getting penalties so they tried the same tactic and got their reward so maybe smaller clubs can benefit from inept refereeing as well as the bigger clubs. Be cynical and deceitful before VAR inevitably arrives (somewhere down the line) and you'll put points on the board.

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Just had a look at penalty stats and there have been 29 penalties in the league so far. It's no surprise to see us top of this particular table. Dundee concede 21% of the league's penalty. That's more than 1 in 5.

Penalties conceded
Dundee 6
St Mirren 5
Aberdeen 4
Hearts 3
Hamilton 3
Motherwell 2
Livi 2
Killie 2
Rangers 1
Hibs 1
Celtic 0
St Johnstone 0

Are our defenders more naive than St Johnstone's or just unlucky?

As much as I empathise with Cammy I think he's laid a hand on the back on Jackson and that's enough to prompt the Canadian to go down. After all how else is he going to score? I say this every week but we have to start expecting the cheats to cheat rather than just being surprised every time we concede a soft penalty and bleating about it after the match.

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54 minutes ago, Cobra said:

Just had a look at penalty stats and there have been 29 penalties in the league so far. It's no surprise to see us top of this particular table. Dundee concede 21% of the league's penalty. That's more than 1 in 5.

Penalties conceded
Dundee 6
St Mirren 5
Aberdeen 4
Hearts 3
Hamilton 3
Motherwell 2
Livi 2
Killie 2
Rangers 1
Hibs 1
Celtic 0
St Johnstone 0

Are our defenders more naive than St Johnstone's or just unlucky?

As much as I empathise with Cammy I think he's laid a hand on the back on Jackson and that's enough to prompt the Canadian to go down. After all how else is he going to score? I say this every week but we have to start expecting the cheats to cheat rather than just being surprised every time we concede a soft penalty and bleating about it after the match.

And in ten words you've summed up exactly what's wrong with the game. (nothing against Canadians mind! 😉 )

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3 hours ago, barkblue said:

And in ten words you've summed up exactly what's wrong with the game. (nothing against Canadians mind! 😉 )

Sadly nowadays it is win at all costs and if that means cheating then so be it. 

I was cheated in a golf competition when I was a member of Islay Golf Club. I never played in that competition again and it ultimately led to me giving up playing golf in February 2011. 

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5 hours ago, Cobra said:

Are our defenders more naive than St Johnstone's or just unlucky?

As much as I empathise with Cammy I think he's laid a hand on the back on Jackson and that's enough to prompt the Canadian to go down. After all how else is he going to score? I say this every week but we have to start expecting the cheats to cheat rather than just being surprised every time we concede a soft penalty and bleating about it after the match.

100% this, Cobra....too soft, too naive.....and maybe a bit too slow to anticipate being conned? 

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4 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

100% this, Cobra....too soft, too naive.....and maybe a bit too slow to anticipate being conned? 

Four penalties conceded in the last four home games, which is ridiculous. We didn't concede a penalty against Hearts but we did manage to concede in the first minute of each half.

I'm convinced other teams must be talking about manipulating our players and the ref into getting penalties and free-kicks around the box.

 

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43 minutes ago, Cobra said:

Four penalties conceded in the last four home games, which is ridiculous. We didn't concede a penalty against Hearts but we did manage to concede in the first minute of each half.

I'm convinced other teams must be talking about manipulating our players and the ref into getting penalties and free-kicks around the box.

 

It's up to the manager and the coaching staff to sort it out. IMO we should have a statement from JM that he's spent time with a referee and our players going over the things that refs look for. It daft to moan IMO we should be proactive and try to stop our players making the same naive errors so frequently.

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You can’t legislate for or be proactive if boys are just going to dive in the box

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Terrific to see the the minority getting bigger - and louder - regarding getting this massive waste of time and resources in the f**cking sea. 

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