Stability

[troodee1893]

It has come up in a number of threads that we need stability, something akin to the St Johnstone 'model'. This is easier said than done. Has any team suffered worse than us over however many seasons in changing managers, signing a completely new squad on 2/3 year deals only for them to be moved on in loan deals, paid off or left to train with the youngsters as another managerial change takes place. We are obviously in this cycle once again with a raft of players drawing wages (as they are perfectly entitled to do and if they so desire continue to do so until their contract ends) and embarking on another signing spree to try to stay up. I am dismayed at some of the names being bandied around and I know that there may well be few quality players around at this time but Curran from or Gardyne or Graham from Ross County, is this really the way forward. Take Curran, he has hardly started for United and it seems the management team don't rate him, their support certainly don't. He is on a long contract over there ( 3 years I believe) and won't want to tear up that contract for a 6 to 18 month contact at Dens; there is even talk for some of the muppets from the support across the road that we could pay a fee for him for god sake. Stability is not going to be achieved by signing another batch of journeyman pros that will inevitably get punted if we go down and if that results in another managerial change. We have to break this cycle even if it means relegation because lets face it the damage to this season was done by NM's signings and although not consigned to relegation when McIntyre took over we were a sorry lot heading in that direction.

I see the way forward as sticking with McIntyre (although not a total fan of his and yet to be convinced) and trying to let him build a team. Recall Waddell if possible and try some of our youngsters that did so well last season in their Division. We have to sign players as we will not have enough if we go through with all the expected departures but hopefully with a bit of luck on the signing front (something we haven't had of late) and good research on the ones we hope to sign we may just hang onto top league status (due to St. Mirren/Hamilton) being equally poor) and build on that next season.

We need to sign better players and get better at signing players and setting reasonable contracts that are not too long but at least allow a chance of getting a fee it things turn out well. Compare our record of selling players to the lot across the road before they became a basket case. They always seemed to have the knack and luck to get what a player was worth (Andrew Robertson) and in many cases far more than what they were worth (Gauld, Cifiti etc etc). Apart from Jack Hendry we have failed conspicuously over the past few years to get reasonable or any fees for players that better managed contract wise and otherwise could have netted us considerable fees (Hemmings, Stewart, Bain, Caulker and now apparently Kamara to Rangers; it makes me sick). Whether Nelms should be allowed to carry on is debatable at best but if he has the confidence of Keyes and it looks like he's here to stay. Keyes is from a family that runs, successfully, one of the world'd large companies. He needs to put that expertise to good use with a root and branch management review and set down guidelines to stop this rot and leeching of funds due to all the foregoing and if this includes the signing of a new Chief Executive or Football Director then so be it. If we sign a lot of dross (a la United when they went down and to be fair as we have done this past close season then I fear for our club).

 

PS Another poster said that he saw a player in Madianga, so do I and I would not be averse to trying again with him with hopefully the right players around him. As for Mendy, Moussa, Elton, Nabi etc etc good riddance. Could we be lucky that Deacon actually manages to play a few games also and contributes something to the team (I also think there is a reasonable player in there if fit)?

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

What is the company that the Keyes run? I find no evidence of them running one of the worlds largest companies.

in fact in US terms they are small beer.

Edited 4 January 2019 by Billy Campbell's Ghost

[SM1893]

I don’t think it’s not for the lack of trying from those in stewardship. We clearly had a ‘model’, in the loosest terms, to go for young and ambitious managers who would look to unearth gems from various sources (Scotland / England lower leagues and various contacts in Europe through then managers). In addition to that, both PH and NM were given a fair bit of time to turn their lack of results around.

My thoughts on it are that for our level of ambition it was too one dimensional and we went for too many of these types of players. As supporters we regularly had to do digging on the background of signings. In NMs case I think we relied heavily on OYS to bring in players.

We’ve now changed tack in terms of management, but I still feel our recruitment / scouting team and department is seriously lacking and needs a major financial and dedicated time investment, both for 1st team and youth levels. 

Edited 4 January 2019 by SM1893

[troodee1893]

41 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

What is the company that the Keyes run? I find no evidence of them running one of the worlds largest companies.

in fact in US terms they are small beer.

I said large company not largest. I went on the info given when they were looking to take over in the first place in that his father was a wealthy man running a major company and Tim Keyes was now in the business. There has to have been good business acumen at least on his father's part, hopefully it has passed down a generation.

 

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2013/05/22/dundee-takeover-characters-out-of-dallas/

[an-dee]

I think a Director of Football role should be something we seriously look at in the summer. We need a clear strategy when signing players/offering contracts/renewing contracts/releasing players, it’s too much to ask a manager to source, scout and sign almost an entire squad. A DoF with some sort of recruitment team should be in place with the manager having an input too. It’s what happens at most big clubs now. The days of managers doing everything are probably over IMO. 

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

2 hours ago, Troodee1893 said:

I said large company not largest. I went on the info given when they were looking to take over in the first place in that his father was a wealthy man running a major company and Tim Keyes was now in the business. There has to have been good business acumen at least on his father's part, hopefully it has passed down a generation.

 

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2013/05/22/dundee-takeover-characters-out-of-dallas/

But it is not large. If you look at the numbers. Tenna penny in the US. Sorry to differ. The dad did operate as an employee at a high level before retiiring.

[chomp my root]

7 hours ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

What is the company that the Keyes run? I find no evidence of them running one of the worlds largest companies.

in fact in US terms they are small beer.

With the benefit of hindsight, they've made mistakes. They've also put their hands in their pocket.

I'm not their biggest fan but fair's fair and they have given us a decent but unspectacular period under their stewardship.

[HK Blues]

12 hours ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

But it is not large. If you look at the numbers. Tenna penny in the US. Sorry to differ. The dad did operate as an employee at a high level before retiiring.

Aye...but the smallest fish in the biggest pond can be a good bit stronger than the biggest fish in the smallest pond.