Jump to content
The Dark Blues

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

I am not going to pretend I know the full role of the DFCSS  (although I am a member)

At £5 a year, it's unlikely to break anyone's bank. And so, unless you are against totally,

the idea of DFCSS & what it stands for, why not consider joining, & having a voice/vote.

Many on here have a deep understanding of the workings of the organisation (Not me)

But although I have been impressed with what FPS has done for the Club ... I think it is

important to have a watchful body outwith. At the introduction of DeeTV (before being

"stolen" by DFC/FPS) I felt more tuned in to what it was trying to achieve. However the

way this happened, made me think again ... PROBABLY BETTER TO BE ALERT TO FPS.

& be grateful to any independent, unconnected, individual body with interest/intelligence,

that is willing to put in the time & effort to protect the Club we all hold dear to us DFC :wub:

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

I have been avoiding posting on this topic until now. I have spent about fifteen minutes reading the posts about the email sent to all the full members including myself of DFCSS regarding the results of the consultation. Every poster on this forum appears to be aware of the full facts which is more than I can say for several posters on other Dundee supporters forums. 

Meanwhile I have been trawling through the Companies House website (no surprise there) and I discovered that the A shares were originally allocated to a Dundee supporters society on 26th January 2008 with the document signed by the late Ian Bodie. The supporters society at that time was Dee4Life which is now DFCSS 

There was only one difference at that time between the A shares and ordinary shares. The holder of the A shares was entitled to appoint  a representative to the board of directors of Dundee Football Club Limited. 

On 13th August 2013 the current entrenched rights were added to the A shares and FPS were happy at that time too accept them in full. 

I do not understand why FPS (now Messrs Keyes and Nelms) have changed their mind and now want to get rid of the entrenched rights by wishing to purchase all the A shares held by DFCSS. 

In my opinion it is time for Messrs Keyes and Nelms to explain to the Dundee supporters why FPs wish to only purchase the A shares to reach their holy grail figure of a 75% shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited. Last year FPS stated that at the end of the 2018-19 financial year they would be transferring their shares in Dundee Football Club Limited to Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited. Why do they need the A shares unless they want rid of the entrenched rights including preventing a merger with United or playing permanently at Tannadice. 

Over the weekend I have seen some nonsense posted by Dundee supporters on other forums. 

One person does not like DFCSS and has no wish to pay his £5 annual membership fee, wants to know everything in the document that was emailed to  every DFCSS full member regarding the results of the consultation. I told him to pay his membership fee to join DFCSS and he would receive the information but as a non member he was not entitled to receive this information. 

Another poster stated that the £150,000 during Admin 2 raised by the supporters and handed over to DFCSS to pay the administrator Bryan Jackson was in fact used to purchase shares in Dundee Football Club Limited. 

What a lot of rubbish and I told him so in my reply to him. This poster then said that the information on the Companies House website was just ‘accounting speak’. 

At that point I just about lost the will to live. I had a cup of coffee and a piece of delicious home made tray bake. 

DFCSS received a 53.7% shareholding in DFC (2007) Limited and this was agreed by the creditors at the CVA meeting which agreed the 100p in the pound payout to preferential creditors and the 6p in pound payout to ordinary creditors. 

The only people to vote against the above proposal were HMRC, Gordon Chisholm and Billy Dodds. 

The transfer of the shares to DFCSS was completed on 12th May 2011. 

In my opinion the biggest problem is that the bulk of the 4,000 members who paid £1 to join Dee4Life and now DFCSS think that they are entitled to attended the DFCSS AGM and complete any consultation with the members. 

Two years ago I assumed that as a £1 member of DFCSS I was still entitled to attend the DFCSS AGM. I was advised on his forum that it was only full members who paid an annual membership fee who were entitled to attend the AGM. 

I paid my annual membership fee in November 2017.I am now a full member of DFCSS and trying to do my bit for the society. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Islaydarkblue said:

Hi All,

I have been avoiding posting on this topic until now. I have spent about fifteen minutes reading the posts about the email sent to all the full members including myself of DFCSS regarding the results of the consultation. Every poster on this forum appears to be aware of the full facts which is more than I can say for several posters on other Dundee supporters forums. 

Meanwhile I have been trawling through the Companies House website (no surprise there) and I discovered that the A shares were originally allocated to a Dundee supporters society on 26th January 2008 with the document signed by the late Ian Bodie. The supporters society at that time was Dee4Life which is now DFCSS 

There was only one difference at that time between the A shares and ordinary shares. The holder of the A shares was entitled to appoint  a representative to the board of directors of Dundee Football Club Limited. 

On 13th August 2013 the current entrenched rights were added to the A shares and FPS were happy at that time too accept them in full. 

I do not understand why FPS (now Messrs Keyes and Nelms) have changed their mind and now want to get rid of the entrenched rights by wishing to purchase all the A shares held by DFCSS. 

In my opinion it is time for Messrs Keyes and Nelms to explain to the Dundee supporters why FPs wish to only purchase the A shares to reach their holy grail figure of a 75% shareholding in Dundee Football Club Limited. Last year FPS stated that at the end of the 2018-19 financial year they would be transferring their shares in Dundee Football Club Limited to Dark Blue Property Holdings Limited. Why do they need the A shares unless they want rid of the entrenched rights including preventing a merger with United or playing permanently at Tannadice. 

Over the weekend I have seen some nonsense posted by Dundee supporters on other forums. 

One person does not like DFCSS and has no wish to pay his £5 annual membership fee, wants to know everything in the document that was emailed to  every DFCSS full member regarding the results of the consultation. I told him to pay his membership fee to join DFCSS and he would receive the information but as a non member he was not entitled to receive this information. 

Another poster stated that the £150,000 during Admin 2 raised by the supporters and handed over to DFCSS to pay the administrator Bryan Jackson was in fact used to purchase shares in Dundee Football Club Limited. 

What a lot of rubbish and I told him so in my reply to him. This poster then said that the information on the Companies House website was just ‘accounting speak’. 

At that point I just about lost the will to live. I had a cup of coffee and a piece of delicious home made tray bake. 

DFCSS received a 53.7% shareholding in DFC (2007) Limited and this was agreed by the creditors at the CVA meeting which agreed the 100p in the pound payout to preferential creditors and the 6p in pound payout to ordinary creditors. 

The only people to vote against the above proposal were HMRC, Gordon Chisholm and Billy Dodds. 

The transfer of the shares to DFCSS was completed on 12th May 2011. 

In my opinion the biggest problem is that the bulk of the 4,000 members who paid £1 to join Dee4Life and now DFCSS think that they are entitled to attended the DFCSS AGM and complete any consultation with the members. 

Two years ago I assumed that as a £1 member of DFCSS I was still entitled to attend the DFCSS AGM. I was advised on his forum that it was only full members who paid an annual membership fee who were entitled to attend the AGM. 

I paid my annual membership fee in November 2017.I am now a full member of DFCSS and trying to do my bit for the society. 

Douglas, 

Please email me on [email protected]

Regards

Kenny Ross

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At risk of sounding like someone else ;)....a wee point of clarification.....

The formal/legal name, as registered on Companies House (Scotland) is "Dundee FC Supporters Society Limited". 

"Dee4Life" was the 'trading name', and is still included in the Society's bank account & cheque books, as 'Dundee FC Supporters Society Ltd, t/a Dee4Life'. 

Dee4Life (and D4L) effectively became the 'brand names' that we identified with throughout the Admin1 phase. When the Club entered administration the second time, the directors decided to use the abbreviation of the formal name, DFCSS, in the correspondence, fundraising, etc, instead of Dee4Life. 

There was some discussion last year about going back to using Dee4Life as the day-to-day name. I hope that'll still happen, as it's a concept Dundee fans identified with, and probably still do, moreso than DFCSS or any variations on that, like 'the SS' :o ....and all our old t-shirts would become 'current' again :)  

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Islay you've obviously put a great deal of work into researching ...

However as you said, in your own (longer than usual) post in reference to comments/responses, made by other posters on another forum ... "At that point I just about lost the will to live. I had a cup of coffee and a piece of delicious home made tray bake"  (And that just about sums up my own feelings, when trying to make sense of your post)

I know your initial reaction to my last comment will be ..... That's Gedee trying to put me doon again !!

But in truth I am not... As I already said you have put in a great deal of time & effort. And for that I congratulate you. However it is an area I know nothing about. And nor do I wish to. I do accept the work & your findings  are probably important & relevant, and I would be very surprised if you don't receive many responses from posters, who are more knowledgeable and possibly experts in this area ...

I am more interested in your "piece of delicious home made tray bake" ... Now that's something eh can think & talk aboot:chaplin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WoodStein said:

At risk of sounding like someone else ;)....a wee point of clarification.....

The formal/legal name, as registered on Companies House (Scotland) is "Dundee FC Supporters Society Limited". 

"Dee4Life" was the 'trading name', and is still included in the Society's bank account & cheque books, as 'Dundee FC Supporters Society Ltd, t/a Dee4Life'. 

Dee4Life (and D4L) effectively became the 'brand names' that we identified with throughout the Admin1 phase. When the Club entered administration the second time, the directors decided to use the abbreviation of the formal name, DFCSS, in the correspondence, fundraising, etc, instead of Dee4Life. 

There was some discussion last year about going back to using Dee4Life as the day-to-day name. I hope that'll still happen, as it's a concept Dundee fans identified with, and probably still do, moreso than DFCSS or any variations on that, like 'the SS' :o ....and all our old t-shirts would become 'current' again :)  

 

Absolutely agree that we should consider using the Dee4Life brand again as fans identify with that. Like it or not the DFCSS name is toxic in some supporters eyes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, WoodStein said:

At risk of sounding like someone else ;)....a wee point of clarification.....

The formal/legal name, as registered on Companies House (Scotland) is "Dundee FC Supporters Society Limited". 

"Dee4Life" was the 'trading name', and is still included in the Society's bank account & cheque books, as 'Dundee FC Supporters Society Ltd, t/a Dee4Life'. 

Dee4Life (and D4L) effectively became the 'brand names' that we identified with throughout the Admin1 phase. When the Club entered administration the second time, the directors decided to use the abbreviation of the formal name, DFCSS, in the correspondence, fundraising, etc, instead of Dee4Life. 

There was some discussion last year about going back to using Dee4Life as the day-to-day name. I hope that'll still happen, as it's a concept Dundee fans identified with, and probably still do, moreso than DFCSS or any variations on that, like 'the SS' :o ....and all our old t-shirts would become 'current' again :)  

 

Was the DFCSS thing not partially because a couple of supporters society merged between Admin 1 and 2, meaning that they went to use the trading name as a compromise (since the original Dee4Life would have effectively swallowed the other ones up)?

I might have made that up though as I can't find anything about it and I was young at the time and didn't really have any understanding (or care) of the politics involved.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Harry94 said:

Was the DFCSS thing not partially because a couple of supporters society merged between Admin 1 and 2, meaning that they went to use the trading name as a compromise (since the original Dee4Life would have effectively swallowed the other ones up)?

I might have made that up though as I can't find anything about it and I was young at the time and didn't really have any understanding (or care) of the politics involved.

I don't know if you're maybe thinking of the few years when the DSA became 'part of' DFCSS, before deciding they'd prefer to return to being autonomous again?

DFCSS has always been the 'legal entity', as the shareholder in DFC.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

I don't know if you're maybe thinking of the few years when the DSA became 'part of' DFCSS, before deciding they'd prefer to return to being autonomous again?

DFCSS has always been the 'legal entity', as the shareholder in DFC.

Yeah that makes sense, I think it was the DSA thing I had in my head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad there are some folk within the organisation and with excellent insight into the share issues etc on here . Bottom line is I guess dfcss is the only group that the owners will converse with as things stand. I believe that to make it more representative of the support generally is to further increase the number of members. Many on here had let membership slide . The more rejoin or join for the first time can only be beneficial . For a fiver ( less than my two pies) it shows some solidarity . Cmon lads, who’s in

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, DarkBlueKnight said:

Bottom line is I guess dfcss is the only group that the owners will converse with as things stand. 

The owners will only speak to two individuals who they feel represent the entire support, I know why this is but won't go into it here, both individuals are DSA committee members.

The owners will not speak in any reasonable way to DFCSS unfortunately. Again I know why but won't go into it here, suffice to say the toys are now well away from the pram never to be retrieved.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Harry94 said:

Yeah that makes sense, I think it was the DSA thing I had in my head.

Harry, a bit of deeper searching in my memory (it works at a slower pace now!), prompted by a chat with an old colleague, and I realised you were right about the 'couple of supporters groups'.

The one I'd missed out earlier is the Dundee Business Development Club (so my apologies to former committee & members of that group!), largely business guys who had been doing a lot of good fundraising for several years, well before Admin1, including (an example I recall) buying a minibus to be used for the youth teams. The Bus. Dev. Club merged fully & that was the point when the emphasis changed from Dee4Life to the formal DFCSS title, and some Bus. Dev. Club committee members joined the DFCSS Board.

I think the DSA participation followed a wee bit later, and they retained their identity as part of an 'umbrella' arrangement, but also participating on the DFCSS Board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Dark blue business trust now show as dissolved in companies house but they still retain a fairly chunky shareholding in the company share register - i wonder who controls those shares as it was Steve Martin & Peter Marr that effectively set up and run the DBBT, wonder where the assets go

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/02/2019 at 12:39, Gedee said:

Islay you've obviously put a great deal of work into researching ...

However as you said, in your own (longer than usual) post in reference to comments/responses, made by other posters on another forum ... "At that point I just about lost the will to live. I had a cup of coffee and a piece of delicious home made tray bake"  (And that just about sums up my own feelings, when trying to make sense of your post)

I know your initial reaction to my last comment will be ..... That's Gedee trying to put me doon again !!

But in truth I am not... As I already said you have put in a great deal of time & effort. And for that I congratulate you. However it is an area I know nothing about. And nor do I wish to. I do accept the work & your findings  are probably important & relevant, and I would be very surprised if you don't receive many responses from posters, who are more knowledgeable and possibly experts in this area ...

I am more interested in your "piece of delicious home made tray bake" ... Now that's something eh can think & talk aboot:chaplin:

Hi Gedee,

Thank you for your kind comments. 

As Dundee were not playing last Saturday afternoon I thought that it would a quiet afternoon on the various forums. This one was fine but on the two others fans were in my personal opinion posting a lot of nonsense about various things. My wife keeps telling me not to get involved but I cannot sit reading posts which I know are wrong and do nothing about it. 

Even when I proved one thing in black and white the poster concerned posted that it was ‘accounting speak’.

At that point I just about lost the will to live and was forced to have a cup of coffee and a piece of delicious tray bake which does nothing for my stomach. 

However there is a well known saying ‘Every thing in moderation’ and if I can restrict myself to two pieces of tray bake per day supplemented by biscuits I should be fine. 

I have been interested in stocks and shares since I was about seven years old when I discovered that my granny had shares in a rubber company and found out where they were listed in the financial section of the Dundee Courier. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, WoodStein said:

Harry, a bit of deeper searching in my memory (it works at a slower pace now!), prompted by a chat with an old colleague, and I realised you were right about the 'couple of supporters groups'.

The one I'd missed out earlier is the Dundee Business Development Club (so my apologies to former committee & members of that group!), largely business guys who had been doing a lot of good fundraising for several years, well before Admin1, including (an example I recall) buying a minibus to be used for the youth teams. The Bus. Dev. Club merged fully & that was the point when the emphasis changed from Dee4Life to the formal DFCSS title, and some Bus. Dev. Club committee members joined the DFCSS Board.

I think the DSA participation followed a wee bit later, and they retained their identity as part of an 'umbrella' arrangement, but also participating on the DFCSS Board.

Hi WoodStein.

 I know nothing about what you are saying as during this period I was an armchair supporter playing golf on a Saturday afternoon. 

After attending some of the home games this season up to the end of 2018 including the League Cup home game against Ayr United I was beginning to wish I had remained an armchair supporter. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

The owners will only speak to two individuals who they feel represent the entire support, I know why this is but won't go into it here, both individuals are DSA committee members.

The owners will not speak in any reasonable way to DFCSS unfortunately. Again I know why but won't go into it here, suffice to say the toys are now well away from the pram never to be retrieved.

One must be Kenny Ross.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.