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Stampguy

NMc and JMc - a Closer Look

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Alright lads, my first ever stab at starting my own thread. I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the actual numbers of how things have shaken loose since the managerial change. I've only included league games, and only this season. For the record I was a NM supporter, but agreed that the plot was well and truly lost and he had to go. And on that same record I thought JM was a lukewarm appt and he has made some moves that I can't wrap my head around, and that he has also made some good moves as well, but I think we have the players to get us to 10th, and will support him and the club in our quest to find safety and always will do. 

Let me ask one last question to you lads: Do any of you think that without Moussa's, JackHam's, and the Generals eff-ups in the first two games which would have left us on 4 pts from 2 games instead of 0 that McCann's team could've kicked on? You could even extend it to the St Johnstone game where we played pretty well again, but the show pony Caulker and Meekings played like a couple of schoolboys? After that the wheels well and truly fell off (Cup games aside because those have been an abomination under both managers). 

                                W - D - L - PTS - PPG - GF - GFPG - GA - GAPG - W% - L%

NM (8 M)               1    0    7     3      .38      5        .63      15    1.86   .125   .875

JM (16 M)             2    5     9    11    .69      13      .81      33    2.06   .125   .563

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The numbers don't lie.

Both atrocious records however it would be more interesting for me to take yesterday's game and the next seven as comparison against McCann's eight this season because the majority of the games played by McIntyre were with McCann's team. Better comparison will be McIntyre's team as it is now against the team McCann cobbled together (I was against McCann from day one and don't have a good word for him or his team).

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51 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

The numbers don't lie.

Both atrocious records however it would be more interesting for me to take yesterday's game and the next seven as comparison against McCann's eight this season because the majority of the games played by McIntyre were with McCann's team. Better comparison will be McIntyre's team as it is now against the team McCann cobbled together (I was against McCann from day one and don't have a good word for him or his team).

The next 7 of JMc could well define if we stay up, If he succeeds he will be a Dee Hero for saving the season, and the opportunity to build a side through the summer for a middle table / top six, if not the Loanee's will return to their clubs and the club will have the budget basis in place for a fight in the Championship. The shrewd management of the transfer windows has a balance for either way and possibly reflects the fear within the club.

I would like to think that the spend  / quality brought in, will see us retain our position in the league without the worry of a play off.

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1 hour ago, Stampguy said:

Alright lads, my first ever stab at starting my own thread. I thought it would be interesting to take a look at the actual numbers of how things have shaken loose since the managerial change. I've only included league games, and only this season. For the record I was a NM supporter, but agreed that the plot was well and truly lost and he had to go. And on that same record I thought JM was a lukewarm appt and he has made some moves that I can't wrap my head around, and that he has also made some good moves as well, but I think we have the players to get us to 10th, and will support him and the club in our quest to find safety and always will do. 

Let me ask one last question to you lads: Do any of you think that without Moussa's, JackHam's, and the Generals eff-ups in the first two games which would have left us on 4 pts from 2 games instead of 0 that McCann's team could've kicked on? You could even extend it to the St Johnstone game where we played pretty well again, but the show pony Caulker and Meekings played like a couple of schoolboys? After that the wheels well and truly fell off (Cup games aside because those have been an abomination under both managers). 

                                W - D - L - PTS - PPG - GF - GFPG - GA - GAPG - W% - L%

NM (8 M)               1    0    7     3      .38      5        .63      15    1.86   .125   .875

JM (16 M)             2    5     9    11    .69      13      .81      33    2.06   .125   .563

Think the Goals Against number is very worrying. JM must sort this out. TBF to him I think he gave all of the squad a chance to play for him in the positions that they were most comfortable with. He got a reaction and then everything changed when he told players that they were surplus to requirements. I'm hopeful that the new team can find the spirit to pick up some points before the split, and keep us in contention with Hamilton and St Mirren.  Seems to me the fans have a massive say on how our season works out. We get behind JM and the team no matter what the next set of games deliver in terms of results, in the hope that there will be a way to avoid relegation post split.

If he can even get  couple of clean sheets with the new team it would be a big boost.

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I agree with the view expressed, that it would be more in line, to assess JM since the arrival of the New Players...

He obviously was NOT happy with most of his inherited players. Recent signings shows how limited his choice was.

On a side note, weel done Stamp guy for starting First New Topic It's very rarely easy to do but it encourages others.

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3 minutes ago, Gedee said:

I agree with the view expressed, that it would be more in line, to assess JM since the arrival of the New Players...

He obviously was NOT happy with most of his inherited players. Recent signings shows how limited his choice was.

On a side note, weel done Stamp guy for starting First New Topic It's very rarely easy to do but it encourages others.

And it's a good discussion point

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1 minute ago, Prince Buster said:

And it's a good discussion point

Agree Prince...Although there is always the chance it may go wayward & develop into a "slanging match" :explode:

Going back for a moment on introducing New Topics...It's no' aye easy, but every member/poster should try.

Impossible to know if a "New Topic" will take off  (some fall by the wayside) But it keeps TDBF ticking over.

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I'm probably easily pleased as I was ok with NM being appointed as everyone has to start somewhere. Maybe because I have no influence on these things I just accept them but I was glad when NM got his jotters, it just wasn't working. When JM came in I was happy enough, a lot on here were screaming out for a more experienced manager and the Board duly delivered, experienced and with recent form for digging a gash team out of the brown stuff at the bottom end of this very league. That he couldn't immediately turn the squad of players at his disposal into a decent team seems to have gone against him, well either that or being a DAB but he's gone about his business and brought in guys who he knew and presumably thought had the experience for this campaign and then scoured around looking for replacements for those he thought weren't up to it. While he's not exactly an avant garde manager, neither is Tommy Wright that a lot of us jizz our Y's over (maybe just me.... ) and maybe that's what's needed, keep it relatively simple and build a solid mid table team over the next season or two. 

As already pointed out, we have quite a few loanees, a bit of a gamble perhaps but whatever league we end up in, JM has the nucleus of his squad for next season and they'll have had half a season to bond and be a team. We'll see what we get between now and May but I suspect/hope that our new 'Messiah' was a shrewd appointment.

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57 minutes ago, BCram said:

Think the Goals Against number is very worrying. JM must sort this out. TBF to him I think he gave all of the squad a chance to play for him in the positions that they were most comfortable with. He got a reaction and then everything changed when he told players that they were surplus to requirements. I'm hopeful that the new team can find the spirit to pick up some points before the split, and keep us in contention with Hamilton and St Mirren.  Seems to me the fans have a massive say on how our season works out. We get behind JM and the team no matter what the next set of games deliver in terms of results, in the hope that there will be a way to avoid relegation post split.

If he can even get  couple of clean sheets with the new team it would be a big boost.

I think it is pretty telling of our season when we are into February and we have only won 3 games out of 24.

We would deserve to go down with those amount of wins. In all honesty, regardless of the players this season we should be doing a lot better than this regardless of who is the manager.

If we do go down, both managers will be to blame for this whole season and not just the one. JM should have done better with some of the results which have gone against us.

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2 minutes ago, Chomp my root said:

We'll see what we get between now and May but I suspect/hope that our new 'Messiah' was a shrewd appointment.

"MESSIAHS" ....Well it's a wee bit like the buses (in a kinda cockeyed way)

Jist when one finally arrives...It breaks doon. But as despondency creeps in,

ANOTHER BUS (MESSIAH) APPEARS ON THE HORIZON:chaplin:

(As my mither &  grannie said, "god works in mysterious ways")

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26 minutes ago, Gedee said:

I agree with the view expressed, that it would be more in line, to assess JM since the arrival of the New Players...

He obviously was NOT happy with most of his inherited players. Recent signings shows how limited his choice was.

On a side note, weel done Stamp guy for starting First New Topic It's very rarely easy to do but it encourages others.

I agree with you with you in the main Gedee about an overall assessment about JM further down the line, I just thought it would be interesting to take an initial look at the numbers. Also I don't think it's totally unfair to scrutinise JM for decisions that he has made since he got here.

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1 minute ago, Stampguy said:

I agree with you with you in the main Gedee about an overall assessment about JM further down the line, I just thought it would be interesting to take an initial look at the numbers. Also I don't think it's totally unfair to scrutinise JM for decisions that he has made since he got here.

Totally agree meh freend ... However if this topic develops intae a high octave, argie bargie. raging argument ... Eh'll ken wha tae blame :excited:

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5 minutes ago, Gedee said:

"MESSIAHS" ....Well it's a wee bit like the buses (in a kinda cockeyed way)

Jist when one finally arrives...It breaks doon. But as despondency creeps in,

ANOTHER BUS (MESSIAH) APPEARS ON THE HORIZON:chaplin:

(As my mither &  grannie said, "god works in mysterious ways")

The bible has JC, we've got JN. ;)

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15 minutes ago, Gedee said:

Totally agree meh freend ... However if this topic develops intae a high octave, argie bargie. raging argument ... Eh'll ken wha tae blame :excited:

My shoulders can take the heavy burden if it should come tae that Gedee. A raging argument here - I just don't see that happening freend, not amongst us Dees 😁. And thanks for the encouragement, I've always been more of a lurker and an occasional drive by poster that slips back into lurker mode, but I thought I'd give my own topic a go. 

I think it's also nervousness at how bad we've been this season that is making me want vent it all out here. As others have pointed out in most years we'd already be done for this season, but the garbage that are Accies and Midden has allowed us to stay in the fight. Most years you need what 36-39 points for safety (Cobra would know), this year it may be achieved with 29 points!

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12 minutes ago, Chomp my root said:

The bible has JC, we've got JN. 

Weel freend we cannae hae everything ... But halfway there is better than nothing :angel:

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5 minutes ago, Stampguy said:

My shoulders can take the heavy burden if it should come tae that Gedee. A raging argument here - I just don't see that happening freend, not amongst us Dees 😁. And thanks for the encouragement, I've always been more of a lurker and an occasional drive by poster that slips back into lurker mode, but I thought I'd give my own topic a go. 

I think it's also nervousness at how bad we've been this season that is making me want vent it all out here. As others have pointed out in most years we'd already be done for this season, but the garbage that are Accies and Midden has allowed us to stay in the fight. Most years you need what 36-39 points for safety (Cobra would know), this year it may be achieved with 29 to 29 points!

Guid Stuff Stampguy ..... And any time yirsel (or anyone else) feels a wee bit nervous/apprehensive aboot starting a New Topic...

Jist think o' thon Auld Daft Git, that's aye going on aboot his Tomatoes & (reinforced) Thermal Long-Johns !! If he can get awa wi that,

Anybody can help keep the posts coming in & start a range o' new topics :wacko:

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32 minutes ago, TheDarkBlues said:

In all honesty, regardless of the players this season we should be doing a lot better than this regardless of who is the manager.

Dont-get-it-dont-understand-Over-my-head

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42 minutes ago, TheDarkBlues said:

I think it is pretty telling of our season when we are into February and we have only won 3 games out of 24.

We would deserve to go down with those amount of wins. In all honesty, regardless of the players this season we should be doing a lot better than this regardless of who is the manager.

If we do go down, both managers will be to blame for this whole season and not just the one. JM should have done better with some of the results which have gone against us.

It's honestly hard to fathom just how bad we have been this season TDB, and frankly it's why there was a lot of angst yesterday on the board after surrendering an injury time goal. On the game thread there were a few posters that seemed to think some of the despairing reactions were OTT, but when you consider what a low points total will possibly achieve safety this year then 2 dropped points is huge. It's even worse that it was directly against one of our main dropzone rivals.

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1 minute ago, Dblair said:

Dont-get-it-dont-understand-Over-my-head

manager.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Dblair said:

Dont-get-it-dont-understand-Over-my-head

4/5/1

Chomp 

Prince/ Rev/ CW/ Gee D

stamp/ Dondeh/ Attilo/ TDB/ WWang 

Wattie.

Subs: valentke/wood stein/Cobra/BC Ghost/BarkB

Would have made no difference to results - both managers are useless! 

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