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Densparker

Scottish Refs.

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Is there any way we the fans can complain  to the powers that be about the inefficiency of the refs and their assistants? Every game they seem to get worse.

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The first half performance at the weekend was absolutely appalling. In fairness, he did come out and pick up on Ikepanzu and the shirt pulling and marginally handle the second half a bit better but there were still some dreadful shouts.

I can accept a referee making a mistake or that and Hearts do make games tough to officiate but what annoyed me the most was the situation with Haring. He goes to obstruct Dieng taking a kick out and the referee allows advantage as Dieng is eager to move the ball on. In the training and guidance documents produced by FIFA, it's quite blatant what should happen and isn't a situation open to interpretation. Haring has committed an act of 'holding an opponent' while the ball is in play and the consequence is a yellow card, there is no direction for 'warnings' or talking to. If he hadn't seen it, fair enough but he went and spoke to him about it.

There were also a few application of the handball rules, one where Kenny Miller (I think) was on the attack. The ball is smashed into the ground and takes a weird spin and hits Miller on the hand. There's absolutely no coherent argument that can be made within the scope of the game that these were possibly deliberate (and people say this part doesn't matter and the referee will give attacking/defending teams the benefit of the doubt - it is written in the law with guidelines on what deliberate means) yet the attack was killed stone dead when we were in a good position.

Woods booking was particularly bad. He initially makes a challenge in the centre of the park which was combative and won the ball. I didn't think so but fair enough, the referee may have found it reckless. If he did however, he should have awarded a yellow card as the guidelines are pretty firm on a challenge being reckless and that is the only way the foul could have possibly been given as he'd clearly won the ball first and then played the man (if he did at all) on the carry through. Instead, play goes on and he's booked for a very very minor contentious foul a minute later. There's nothing that should be open to interpretation there and it's just poor refereeing (it either wasn't a foul initially or it was a booking in the first instance).

It hasn't really been commented on but Ryan McGowan having his shirt pulled when we had an attacking free-kick, in the first half, was in play and the easiest foul to award if seen (it wasn't exactly subtle, his shirt was almost ripped off). I didn't see where it ended up but at the very least, it was at the edge of the box - possibly entered into the penalty area. Walsh was a meter in front of it and his linesman was watching play unobstructed from the Derry side. If referees don't have the courage to penalise things like shirt pulling and obstruction, it's a pretty easy decision for someone like Levein to instruct his team to do it. Unlike some other refereeing performances where they've made poor big calls, it seemed like Walsh was utterly terrified to make decisions and wanted to tweak the laws of the game to make life a bit easier.

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Their keeper was time wasting from about 10 minutes due to playing into the wind then considerably worse after they'd scored yet the ref booked him in about 92nd minute. Why bother. 

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1 hour ago, Densparker said:

Is there any way we the fans can complain  to the powers that be about the inefficiency of the refs and their assistants? Every game they seem to get worse.

Hi Densparker,

In my opinion there is a simple way for fans throughout Scotland to complain about  the inefficiency of referees and their assistants but it involves a bit of organisation. 

Fans groups throughout Scotland would have to get together to organise a concentrated campaign to vigorously complain to the SFA about the inefficiency of their referees and assistants. 

Over a month ago the  Premier League managers had a meeting with John Fleming Head of Refereeing and Ian Maxwell Chief Executive of the SFA. This has had no success as in my opinion since the meeting the standard of refereeing has got worse not better. 

In the past people would have written  letters of complaint to Messrs Fleming and Maxwell but nowadays the obvious solution is to bombard them with emails and eventually ‘the penny might drop’ at Hampden. Surely it cannot be to difficult for someone to find out the personal email addresses of Messrs Fleming and Maxwell. 

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26 minutes ago, Blue4evr said:

Their keeper was time wasting from about 10 minutes due to playing into the wind then considerably worse after they'd scored yet the ref booked him in about 92nd minute. Why bother. 

Referees never seem to properly penalise teams for time wasting. The ball was in play for about 30 seconds in stoppage time and we only went 30 seconds over the time added.

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1 hour ago, Blue4evr said:

Their keeper was time wasting from about 10 minutes due to playing into the wind then considerably worse after they'd scored yet the ref booked him in about 92nd minute. Why bother. 

This for me was the most annoying aspect of the referee's performance (can you even call it that unless you relate it to a clown?). Add the constant stealing of yards at throw-ins to the mix and this was probably the worst ref I have seen at Dens in along time. It wasn't even that he made bad individual decisions, he was was inept throughout the whole game.

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48 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Referees never seem to properly penalise teams for time wasting. The ball was in play for about 30 seconds in stoppage time and we only went 30 seconds over the time added.

Can anyone, Cobra, provide a stat on the earliest a keeper has been yellow carded for timewasting. If it ever happens, it's usually in the last 2/3 minutes. Why not do it after 60 or earlier.

 

7 minutes ago, scooter99 said:

This for me was the most annoying aspect of the referee's performance (can you even call it that unless you relate it to a clown?). Add the constant stealing of yards at throw-ins to the mix and this was probably the worst ref I have seen at Dens in along time. It wasn't even that he made bad individual decisions, he was was inept throughout the whole game.

 

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2 minutes ago, Blue4evr said:

Can anyone, Cobra, provide a stat on the earliest a keeper has been yellow carded for timewasting. If it ever happens, it's usually in the last 2/3 minutes. Why not do it after 60 or earlier.

 

 

This from Wiki

During a game in 1972 between Norway and the Netherlands in Rotterdam, the Norwegian goalkeeper, Per Haftorsen, received a yellow card for timewasting after only five minutes

 

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2 hours ago, harry94 said:

The first half performance at the weekend was absolutely appalling. In fairness, he did come out and pick up on Ikepanzu and the shirt pulling and marginally handle the second half a bit better but there were still some dreadful shouts.

I can accept a referee making a mistake or that and Hearts do make games tough to officiate but what annoyed me the most was the situation with Haring. He goes to obstruct Dieng taking a kick out and the referee allows advantage as Dieng is eager to move the ball on. In the training and guidance documents produced by FIFA, it's quite blatant what should happen and isn't a situation open to interpretation. Haring has committed an act of 'holding an opponent' while the ball is in play and the consequence is a yellow card, there is no direction for 'warnings' or talking to. If he hadn't seen it, fair enough but he went and spoke to him about it.

There were also a few application of the handball rules, one where Kenny Miller (I think) was on the attack. The ball is smashed into the ground and takes a weird spin and hits Miller on the hand. There's absolutely no coherent argument that can be made within the scope of the game that these were possibly deliberate (and people say this part doesn't matter and the referee will give attacking/defending teams the benefit of the doubt - it is written in the law with guidelines on what deliberate means) yet the attack was killed stone dead when we were in a good position.

Woods booking was particularly bad. He initially makes a challenge in the centre of the park which was combative and won the ball. I didn't think so but fair enough, the referee may have found it reckless. If he did however, he should have awarded a yellow card as the guidelines are pretty firm on a challenge being reckless and that is the only way the foul could have possibly been given as he'd clearly won the ball first and then played the man (if he did at all) on the carry through. Instead, play goes on and he's booked for a very very minor contentious foul a minute later. There's nothing that should be open to interpretation there and it's just poor refereeing (it either wasn't a foul initially or it was a booking in the first instance).

It hasn't really been commented on but Ryan McGowan having his shirt pulled when we had an attacking free-kick, in the first half, was in play and the easiest foul to award if seen (it wasn't exactly subtle, his shirt was almost ripped off). I didn't see where it ended up but at the very least, it was at the edge of the box - possibly entered into the penalty area. Walsh was a meter in front of it and his linesman was watching play unobstructed from the Derry side. If referees don't have the courage to penalise things like shirt pulling and obstruction, it's a pretty easy decision for someone like Levein to instruct his team to do it. Unlike some other refereeing performances where they've made poor big calls, it seemed like Walsh was utterly terrified to make decisions and wanted to tweak the laws of the game to make life a bit easier.

Agree with all of this, I was furious at the ineptitude of the ref on Saturday but wondered how much I was watching the game with dark blue tinted specs on.  What is particularly frustrating is when this awful standard of refereeing is supposedly complementing a ‘high profile’ match at £26 a pop. This game was littered with poor refereeing decisions that makes these prices so difficult to justify. 

Yes, Hearts destroyed the match for the spectators, but when we get refereeing incompetence thrown in the mix, it just ruins the whole match day experience. 

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2 hours ago, scooter99 said:

This for me was the most annoying aspect of the referee's performance (can you even call it that unless you relate it to a clown?). Add the constant stealing of yards at throw-ins to the mix and this was probably the worst ref I have seen at Dens in along time. It wasn't even that he made bad individual decisions, he was was inept throughout the whole game.

It appears to be an Edinburgh disease because at the home game against Hibs on 22nd February the Hibs players continually stole at least ten yards at every throw in yet ‘Blind Matty’ the Main Stand side linesman never drew the referee’s attention to this blatant cheating. 

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Refs should be going into both dressing rooms with a list of offences which will not be tolerated and first offence gets carded,including obstruction,pulling shirts, barging,deliberate time wasting,gaining an advantage by moving throws and free kicks etc,that'll soon stop the cheats,been going on for years and needs stamped on,and that's a red card by the way🤬

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27 minutes ago, GSD said:

Refs should be going into both dressing rooms with a list of offences which will not be tolerated and first offence gets carded,including obstruction,pulling shirts, barging,deliberate time wasting,gaining an advantage by moving throws and free kicks etc,that'll soon stop the cheats,been going on for years and needs stamped on,and that's a red card by the way🤬

But not all of those are yellow card offences. Our referees are bad enough by not knowing the actual rules and when to penalise without trying to make up their own new rules.

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Does anyone know if there is still a referee’s supervisor sitting in the Main Stand and rating the referees performance or has John Fleming abandoned them as his  referees are so hopeless. 

Bob Valentine used to be a referee’s supervisor. 

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1 hour ago, islaydarkblue said:

Does anyone know if there is still a referee’s supervisor sitting in the Main Stand and rating the referees performance or has John Fleming abandoned them as his  referees are so hopeless. 

Bob Valentine used to be a referee’s supervisor. 

Yes. 3 in the stand on Saturday.

Sandy Roy - referee observer;

Some other dude - SPFL Observer;

Bob Valentine - pie & sandwich taster.(aka retired & spectating)

 

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3 minutes ago, Budgem said:

Yes. 3 in the stand on Saturday.

Sandy Roy - referee observer;

Some other dude - SPFL Observer;

Bob Valentine - pie & sandwich taster.(aka retired & spectating)

 

I hope Sandy Roy was paying attention to how hopeless Nick Walsh’s refereeing performance was last Saturday. We will never know. However as John Nelms is now on the board of the SPFL he should be using his position to demand that John Fleming Head of refereeing demotes referees who have a poor performance. 

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