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Dayster

Relegation. Would You Be Bothered?

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I think this is the first season ever where we are flirting with relegation and it really doesn't put me up nor down.

The thought of championship football next year is actually quite exciting - get to see the team win a few games, promotion & playoffs to fight for, more Dees turning up to see a winning team, chances of a derby.

Premiership football offers the perennial battle to finish in 6th place while watching poor football and failing to win the majority of games. It just doesn't excite me anymore.

Looking forward to the post split games that will decide the season but not overly concerned if we end up down - been a yo-yo club all my life and that is unlikely to change - may as well embrace it!

 

Anyone else feel that way? Or is it still Premiership at all costs?

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There are pretty worrying financial consequences behind going down and I think that's rightly a huge fear. The 2013 reform was massive though in financial redistribution and although it's still very worrying, I think it's a totally different story now than it was a few years ago and the league is doing well to have a bit of excitement with the play off spot (only introduced after we didn't need it!). For me, it's a case of it introducing a lot of uncertainty about the overall club direction with the stadium and that so I'd spend a few months worrying about that.

That being said, I entirely get what you're saying. The second tier actually gives you something to play for with promotion rather than the long streaks of really difficult to win games and then the reward being we stay afloat. No Celtic/Rangers sh**e and still often something in international breaks.

I think we'll be fine and fans would turn out if the ownership acted to quell uncertainty early on and put someone new in charge (not writing off McIntyre but I just personally feel that keeping a manager after relegation is just always going to end up in tears - would be happy for him to stay if we put in a good finish to the campaign after the split and stay up).

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Financially its not good and the championship is a tough league to get out of however its a league we as a club would have expectations of winning a bit like the old firm have in the premiership so from that point of view it's better than what we are having to currently watch week in week out.... The big question is would this be a one season jolly or would we be stuck down there for years to come? 

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Relegation in 2005 was devastating because it was post-admin and dark times were almost inevitable. Relegation in 2013 was actually a blessing in disguise as the fans enjoyed our title triumph and there was a lot of enthusiasm and an exciting squad built for our return to the top flight under Hartley.

If FPS stick with the club then a return to the Championship might not be a disaster.

I don't want us to get relegated but if we did I would be excited ahead of the new season and I would be optimistic about us rediscovering the winning habit at Dens.

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Yes, I would be concerned if we are relegated. It's going to bring back all those 'groundhog day' memories from that dreadful end to the first premier league season 43 years ago & all our subsequent yo-yo experiences....and the club is going to drop a huge level in income.

My greater fear over the last few years, though, has been the risk of a 3rd administration, rather than relegation....those two administration spells, so close together, weakened the club to a precarious level, and I couldn't imagine the fanbase managing to do a 3rd rescue. 

The Club failed to build on our first season up, and it seems there's a fairly widely-held view that the football standard has slowly declined since then, along with results. 

Finance
Provided FPS don't suddenly decide the Camperdown development isn't going to achieve the funding level required & that they want to sell their controlling share in DFC, relegation alone shouldn't kill us. The owners, though, would likely need to be funding losses, though maybe not much worse than our recent/current level, with all the management/player pay-offs we've had.

We look like selling less STs next season, but if the Board were to make some good decisions on backing a quick (1-2 seasons) return, and make visible progress with Camperdown, it's possible the fanbase may respond & start to turn up in good PATG numbers, especially if we're playing well & winning at home.

Football 
The Championship has perhaps become stronger since we left it, and we've not performed well any time we've been drawn against Championship teams in cups, so it's going to require consistently strong performances to return at the first or second attempt. Having a season where we win more than we lose would restore a more positive atmosphere at Dens, but we're going to need to be building for the long-term at the same time. 

As for the squad, it appears we won't need a massive clearout this summer, whether we survive, or are relegated, as we don't currently have all that many players on contract beyond this season. JM may or may not be the manager, if we're relegated, and although his first PCA signing appears a good one, a major rebuild is likely to result in starting next season with a team that's not fully settled-in, again....and I think you need a good start in the Championship if you hope to be clear leaders all the way through.

A prolonged run in the Championship, though, would be bad news....I really don't want to be reminded of how poor some of those seasons were, between Admin1 & Admin2.  

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I don't think it's very enjoyable right now being a top flight club when you're not one of the top five clubs. Dundee, St Mirren and Hamilton have spent all season losing games. Livi, Motherwell and St Johnstone had good wee runs but are bottom six because of long, miserable runs of form.

The top five clubs are better run than before and using their bigger crowds to gain a significant advantage. It seems to be harder than ever to break into the top six and with Partick and Falkirk flirting with relegation to League One maybe the best thing for Scottish football would a return to a top 16. Unfortunately though, that doesn't interest the Old Firm and TV channels so it won't be considered.

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I think it’s a must we stay in the premiership 

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3 hours ago, harry94 said:

There are pretty worrying financial consequences behind going down and I think that's rightly a huge fear. The 2013 reform was massive though in financial redistribution and although it's still very worrying, I think it's a totally different story now than it was a few years ago and the league is doing well to have a bit of excitement with the play off spot (only introduced after we didn't need it!). For me, it's a case of it introducing a lot of uncertainty about the overall club direction with the stadium and that so I'd spend a few months worrying about that.

That being said, I entirely get what you're saying. The second tier actually gives you something to play for with promotion rather than the long streaks of really difficult to win games and then the reward being we stay afloat. No Celtic/Rangers sh**e and still often something in international breaks.

I think we'll be fine and fans would turn out if the ownership acted to quell uncertainty early on and put someone new in charge (not writing off McIntyre but I just personally feel that keeping a manager after relegation is just always going to end up in tears - would be happy for him to stay if we put in a good finish to the campaign after the split and stay up).

I don't think the fans will force McIntyre out if we get relegated. He's got a good record in the second tier and he wasn't responsible for the terrible recruitment last summer so we'd be as well giving him a chance to do things right this summer. There's no guarantee we'd find someone better and a bit of continuity would probably help our promotion chances.

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We have to stay in the Premiership, Inverness in real financial trouble after being out the top flight for a few seasons.

There semi final appearance will help, but there budget is cut to the bone.

DFC turnover could be cut by 7 figures.

Think some guys forget how bad it was in the Championship other than the last season we got promoted,problem for us since we have came up is that we had two poorish managers who signed some awful players.

St Johnstone have enjoyed numerous trips into Europe these past few years, smaller club with a smaller budget...something we have to at least aspire too...

 

Edited by Mr Sensible
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Crucial we stay up.

Especially if the DABs stay down, we remain the senior club in the city, and our chances of avoiding financial hardship are not compromised.

Can't believe anyone would think otherwise, just on the basis that it's been a tough watch this year, jeez the years we were in the championship were absolute torture, nearly leading to our demise. 

Time to hold steady, avoid the drop, try our best to kick on next year.we don't need to drop a division to play the kind of football that can get attendances back up.

I for one do not want to swap what we have at present just for the dubious pleasure of seeing us get back to winning ways against QOS, Morton etc, whilst gambling the future of the club in the process.

Supporters of Dunfermline, DABS, Partick, Falkirk, Ross County, ICT etc will regret the day the dropped out of the SPL, ( and ask them about the quality of football being served up in that league, brutal),  for us to spin it as a good thing sounds bizarre.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, The Foosty Badger said:

Can't believe anyone would think otherwise, just on the basis that it's been a tough watch this year, jeez the years we were in the championship were absolute torture, nearly leading to our demise. 

I don't really see this bit. I haven't been any more excited or entertained by any of the football we've watched in the top flight. 

I'm desperate for us to stay up, purely because we fought so long and hard to get where we are now and I always want Dundee to be as high up the leagues as possible. However I will freely admit to having been bored rigid for three seasons now, because the competition itself is just so tedious. I think we kid ourselves (and look down our noses somewhat) that playing Queen Of The South or Dunfermline at Dens is any more or less interesting/exciting/entertaining than welcoming Hamilton, Livingston, Motherwell or St Mirren - and that Hearts team from a few weeks back might just have made for the worst spectacle I've witnessed in years and years.

I've always been pretty opposed to making the top division bigger because I think it will be the end for the lower division teams really, because most can't and probably don't even want to make the step up to the top flight, so promotion/relegation would become almost moot. However, something needs to change because the product we are served up (and yes, having a great team winning most weeks would change that, but the chances of that happening and odds of it lasting more than a season if it did are minuscule) is really pretty rubbish. 

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Some interesting replies, must st concentrate on the financial side of things. We are running up large losses season upon season in the top league, going down  I’d expect the same level of losses. Prudent management from the board should see us cut our cloth accordingly. I’d prefer if we done it now tbh and lived with our means but  I’m probably in the minority in that

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Barkblue...No one has really been excited by the football on offer the past few years. No argument there :)

I just don't buy into the fact that is is likely to be anymore exciting (unless my memory is letting me down), by dropping a division if/when relegated. If we can't get a decent game of football going against Hamilton, Motherwell and Hearts imagine the frustration at Dens when every team that visits plays like that. 

I can't really think of any relegated team that has gone through the next season like a dose of salts winning the league with it's cavalier football against lesser class opposition, (which is what I think the "relegation might not be too bad" brigade are saying, apologies if my paraphrasing is inaccurate); and it's not confined to SPL, think Stoke, Sunderland, Swansea etc, ect, etc.

I have no answer to the quality of product on offer; my opinion is that we are more likely to progress as a club and maybe give ourselves a some chance of bringing through decent youngsters or recruiting a better class of player by staying in this league rather than trying to do those things whilst again trying to scramble out of the championship. So in that case maybe the best standard of "entertainment" we can hope for, in the context of 21st century scottish football is playing some of the non football teams in this league along with the teams that at present way ahead, but to do it in a way that has the fans on board, (look at the difference recruiting some players that seem to give a damn has made for example).

There's rightly constant mention of respecting the opinion of others on the forum; my opinion on "relegation not being too bad" is that beware what you wish for, (or in this case don't fear too much), because I think it would be disastrous. I don't think that's too contentious.

 

Edited by The Foosty Badger
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Only if the DABs go up.

But hey, they got pumped out the cup by 2nd rate ICT - every cloud.

Edited by Dondeh

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2 hours ago, Dayster said:

Some interesting replies, must st concentrate on the financial side of things. We are running up large losses season upon season in the top league, going down  I’d expect the same level of losses. Prudent management from the board should see us cut our cloth accordingly. I’d prefer if we done it now tbh and lived with our means but  I’m probably in the minority in that

Dayster, if we were relegated the cuts to the playing side would be horrendous, not too mention job losses all over the club.

The TV money would drop like a stone, the nightmare scenario of clubs like St Johnstone poaching our best players because we cant compete with what they are paying.

The Championship is a horrendous dogfight, that no club the size of ours wants to be in...

And good luck asking punters to pay £24 to watch Arbroath on a freezing day in January..

I get its not been great these past couple of seasons, but lets not go down the path of wanting relegated so we can win a few games against QOS and Morton for example.

We surley have to aspire for better than that....don't we??

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Don't think we've got much option but to accept it. It's almost a certainty, even if we scrape the play off we're likely to lose it.

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YES, had enough of this Phish, first game in 1960, put Thousands into this, Club, especially, in the second Administration, cost me and my family, mega bucks, but whatever us supporters stand up and do, we still Annually, employ Management and Players, promising miracles, that NEVER comes to match their promises, they just move on and don't give a Flying f**k, what happens to Dundee FC, the prices, that Mr Buffoon Nelms, is looking for next season, just doesn't match up to the non existing enjoyment, the Dundee support have had to endure, the past three seasons.  Been a season ticket holder for the past 46 years on the trot, NOT any more.

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In my opinion relegation may not be the financial disaster that some people think it will be. I think that we will receive a parachute payment of £1 Million. 

One thing is certain if we manage to stay up at the end of this season I will certainly not be ‘busting a gut’ to go to Dens next season to watch the anti football played by Hearts and Motherwell which is brutal to watch and is killing the game as a spectacle. 

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I’ve been a season ticket holder for the last 20 years but won’t be next season. 

Guaranteed 

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