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Wattie Rojas

Should the Worst Happen Who Would You Keep?

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I think I'm right in saying Hamilton, Ralph, meekings, Davies, Moore, Curran, Nelson, Todd and miller are under contract for next season. Of these I wouldn't be bothered if meekings, Davies and miller moved on.

I'd be trying to sign dieng, dales and Jonno again. 

Ryan McGowan and Wright won't move to that league. 

I'd also offer O'Dea, Jesse, gowser new deals.

Thoughts?

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41 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

I think I'm right in saying Hamilton, Ralph, meekings, Davies, Moore, Curran, Nelson, Todd and miller are under contract for next season. Of these I wouldn't be bothered if meekings, Davies and miller moved on.

I'd be trying to sign dieng, dales and Jonno again. 

Ryan McGowan and Wright won't move to that league. 

I'd also offer O'Dea, Jesse, gowser new deals.

Thoughts?

Not impressed with what you’ve seen of Davies so far Wattie??? 

You do wonder if he will ever play again . 

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Ralph, Nelson, O'Sullivan, Kerr, Miller (not 100% on this though) J. Curran (only just by the skin of his teeth). Would be delighted to keep Wright but that will not happen.

After that, the rest can get lost as far as I'm concerned. Including McIntyre in that. 

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I think we've got players who could be good in either league, it's just certain positions have been dreadful.

I'd offer Cammy reasonable terms if we went down but I suspect he might want a change of scenery so I think right back will be a position of focus this summer.

Centre back is quite difficult. To be honest, I fear about O'Dea dramatically regressing and maybe struggling even at that level. Meekings could end up being dependable given the opportunity of a new manager but he's been a sick note for years and regressing since the amazing year he had at Inverness - I can't see how another year out of the game will help. Davies I don't suspect will play for us again. I'd go out and sign three or four new players in this position in either case - it's a problem area.

Central midfield is also a big problem. I think Gowser or even Woods could be OK to retain as a bit of experience and dig but we're very weak there and I think a lot of the major problems we see are from that. For me, we need three in there with a couple of them being athletic.

Up top, I'm quite relaxed with Miller staying as I think he could be good experience to have at that level and then we've also got Curran who is well experienced and a good player I think. Nelson will score goals but will need one other due to his injury record (maybe go the young route as well).

Wingers, I'd actually be very happy with Todd and a couple of the ones we have in that league and I think they'd rip it apart. I still really like Jesse actually and I think he needs to be somewhere where he can actually play that role week in week out, he only moved there in October. Our misfortune could be what gives him a good chance to play football.

I think it'd be a mistake to completely start from scratch tbh. It's very tempting and you don't want to reward failure but you need to gel quickly and I think we've got a few players who would be decent.

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19 minutes ago, harry94 said:

I think we've got players who could be good in either league, it's just certain positions have been dreadful.

I'd offer Cammy reasonable terms if we went down but I suspect he might want a change of scenery so I think right back will be a position of focus this summer.

Centre back is quite difficult. To be honest, I fear about O'Dea dramatically regressing and maybe struggling even at that level. Meekings could end up being dependable given the opportunity of a new manager but he's been a sick note for years and regressing since the amazing year he had at Inverness - I can't see how another year out of the game will help. Davies I don't suspect will play for us again. I'd go out and sign three or four new players in this position in either case - it's a problem area.

Central midfield is also a big problem. I think Gowser or even Woods could be OK to retain as a bit of experience and dig but we're very weak there and I think a lot of the major problems we see are from that. For me, we need three in there with a couple of them being athletic.

Up top, I'm quite relaxed with Miller staying as I think he could be good experience to have at that level and then we've also got Curran who is well experienced and a good player I think. Nelson will score goals but will need one other due to his injury record (maybe go the young route as well).

Wingers, I'd actually be very happy with Todd and a couple of the ones we have in that league and I think they'd rip it apart. I still really like Jesse actually and I think he needs to be somewhere where he can actually play that role week in week out, he only moved there in October. Our misfortune could be what gives him a good chance to play football.

I think it'd be a mistake to completely start from scratch tbh. It's very tempting and you don't want to reward failure but you need to gel quickly and I think we've got a few players who would be decent.

I'd definitely keep Jesse, I said on here before that dropping down a league was the best thing for Boyle at the time. I think Jesse has a lot of the same attributes and would benefit from learning the position properly and playing a good amount of games there. Might turn out to be a really useful player for us if we are relegated. 

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Assume relegation. Kerr, Ralph,J.  Curran, Nelson, ideally o Sullivan and  Ryan McGowan, Miller. I would be hoping Kerr Waddell,  would come into the reckoning. Possibly Parish as well. Maybe Dales. I think we need a new central midfield  as what we have just isn't good enough and has been the root of our problem for a few years.

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I think a lot of these Loan players will be out our price range in terms of wages. Dales might be realistic and Wright I doubt would move down

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Bin the lot bar Ralph and start again. Build the club around him. 

Nathan Julius Caesar Ralph. 

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If the worst happened, I’d look at keeping Parrish, Ralph, J Curran, Miller, C Curran and Nelson.

Centre backs and midfield need an urgent overhaul. O’ Dea, Kusunga, Meekings, Kerr and Gowser are all decent enough but I think these positions have been too weak for too long and only because these players have been part (not the cause) of the problem areas for a long time, I just feel they need replacing. 

I suspect that Nelson might have a relegation release clause though. I just can’t see him going from fringe player at Sunderland to Scottish championship without having a say in the matter.  

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If we could get Seny Dieng to sign from QPR that would be a start, really rate him (doubt he would be interested though once were down).  We will be stuck with the contracted players for obvious financials, however, of the "contracts" I would be happy with Nathan Ralph and an "injury free" Nelson (have doubts there though, probably why we've got him) as for the rest, sooner they're the gone the better.

Major rebuilding though (again), but this time with a "New Manager" who has the Knowledge and Experience to guide us back too the top flight or I fear the worst for the future.  Mammoth task for the Americans but if they screw it up this time were as good as gone.  Yes, sadly I cannot see us beat the drop.

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Based on who is under contract then we have...

            Hamilton

 Meekings, Davis, ???

Todd, Woods, ???, Ralph

               J.Curren

       Nelson, C.Curren      

 

Subs...Gourley/Ferrie, Miller, Moore, ???, ???, ???,???

 

Theres a a sort of nuculous there and to be fair all above should be performing at the top end of the championship quite comfortably. I wouldn’t be fussed if we did a deal to let Meekings and Woods go and I’d try and keep Ryan McGowan, Dales, Robson, Sullivan, Wright and Kerr but realisticly I think we could keep Kerr and there’s an outside chance of Wright, Dales and Robson back on loan. So we would still need another right back, 2/3 centre backs, a left sided player, another striker and 2/3 central midfielders.

Whatever happens and whichever league we will be in the revolving door at Dens is going to be busy.

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When did Woods get a new deal? 

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Was discussing this with a few mates today and we had vastly different ideas, but I still stand by the thought that we've seriously lowered our ideas of what a decent player is over the past few years. I honestly think we've only seen two or three players over the past two seasons that are of the standard we'd really want to have at the club.

Who would I keep?

Dieng has the makings of being a seriously good keeper but I can't see him being with us, so from Parish and Hamilton I'd keep Parish. Hamilton was a nonsense signing that we didn't need.

Defensively Ralph is the only boy I'd actively want to keep although Ryan McGowan is the best CB we've had for a while. Still think we could do better. Kusunga just can't screw the nut, O'Dea looks physically finished (when was the last time he played 90 minutes without needing treatment, get cramp or go off injured?). Waddell is a workmanlike back up at best. Neither Cammy or Horsfield have stopped the flow of goals from that flank. I'd be actively looking to move Davies and Meetings on - calling them sick notes doesn't even go half way to covering their contributions to the club.

The middle of the park is just plain awful. Gowser has been garbage, especially in the second half of the season, Woods is a shirker who only contributes when we're playing well - he never takes hold of a game. Robson looks decent but is too lackadaisical for the Scottish game, while Dales and Curran are both tidy players with basically zero end product. How many goals have they scored or set up between them all season? 2? 3? Can't be many more - shots are never hit properly, crosses fly out of play. Who knows what the story is with Hadenius, while Moore looked OK at the weekend but it's way too early to tell. Todd, to be fair looks a good signing, while in a better team I really think O'Sullivan could be a player. Wright is undoubtedly a talented lad but I can't see him staying and I don't know if we'll be able to carry a player who contributes so little when we don't have the ball.

Up top Curran contributes loads while contributing nothing and Kenny Miller has looked utterly lost since his initial goal spree (Clarkson MK 2). Nelson looks like the answer. He'll do a job in the top flight with a better system round about him and he'd tear up the Championship - and it's galling that we only have three options up front.

Man we're rubbish. In short, Parish, Ralph, R McGowan, O'Sullivan, Todd and Nelson for me. That's it.

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2 hours ago, WeighorstsWang said:

When did Woods get a new deal? 

If McIntyre keeps his job... I bet he will give him a new deal! lol

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10 hours ago, TheDarkBlues said:

If McIntyre keeps his job... I bet he will give him a new deal! lol

Nae doubt, 2 year extension as assistant/player coach role 😢

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22 hours ago, Wattie Rojas said:

I think I'm right in saying Hamilton, Ralph, meekings, Davies, Moore, Curran, Nelson, Todd and miller are under contract for next season. Of these I wouldn't be bothered if meekings, Davies and miller moved on.

I'd be trying to sign dieng, dales and Jonno again. 

Ryan McGowan and Wright won't move to that league. 

I'd also offer O'Dea, Jesse, gowser new deals.

Thoughts?

O’Dea, Jesse and Gowser should be let go.

Another season for the three of them is a season too far.

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Ralph and Nelson.

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I am on the fence with Jesse Curran, He actually played pretty well on Saturday. He was way better that Greg Stewart and the driving runs with good ball control reminded me of Greg,  Curran is still improving if he could add the end product we could have an important player.

Stewart was playing for Cowdenbeath when we picked him up, he was 24 years old I recall. I would hold on to Curran for another year.

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7 hours ago, Spiritof62 said:

O’Dea, Jesse and Gowser should be let go.

Another season for the three of them is a season too far.

Gowser has a year’s option on his current contract. 

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2 hours ago, GordonDee said:

I am on the fence with Jesse Curran, He actually played pretty well on Saturday. He was way better that Greg Stewart and the driving runs with good ball control reminded me of Greg,  Curran is still improving if he could add the end product we could have an important player.

Stewart was playing for Cowdenbeath when we picked him up, he was 24 years old I recall. I would hold on to Curran for another year.

I get a feeling we might make a really big mistake if we let him go tbh.

I actually quite like him all round. Sometimes I want to throttle him but he's got that explosive energy and I don't really agree that he's that bad defensively, his stint at right back was disastrous but I think it has seen him develop awareness a bit.

For me, it's definitely worth giving him another shot if we can and I think his late development is because we've spent so long moving him around but he has finally found his position. I really fear we'll let him go and he'll come good for a rival.

I wasn't too disappointed when Martin Boyle left but he only converted to a winger relatively recently before that (about a year). It's not the exact same scenario but I think the positional thing is really important to remember.

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15 hours ago, harry94 said:

I get a feeling we might make a really big mistake if we let him go tbh.

I actually quite like him all round. Sometimes I want to throttle him but he's got that explosive energy and I don't really agree that he's that bad defensively, his stint at right back was disastrous but I think it has seen him develop awareness a bit.

For me, it's definitely worth giving him another shot if we can and I think his late development is because we've spent so long moving him around but he has finally found his position. I really fear we'll let him go and he'll come good for a rival.

I wasn't too disappointed when Martin Boyle left but he only converted to a winger relatively recently before that (about a year). It's not the exact same scenario but I think the positional thing is really important to remember.

Against saints, Jesse set us our 4 best chances which miller X 3 and Robson contrived to miss. On another day he has 4 assists. Personally I really want him to stay.

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16 hours ago, harry94 said:

I get a feeling we might make a really big mistake if we let him go tbh.

I actually quite like him all round. Sometimes I want to throttle him but he's got that explosive energy and I don't really agree that he's that bad defensively, his stint at right back was disastrous but I think it has seen him develop awareness a bit.

For me, it's definitely worth giving him another shot if we can and I think his late development is because we've spent so long moving him around but he has finally found his position. I really fear we'll let him go and he'll come good for a rival.

I wasn't too disappointed when Martin Boyle left but he only converted to a winger relatively recently before that (about a year). It's not the exact same scenario but I think the positional thing is really important to remember.

13 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Against saints, Jesse set us our 4 best chances which miller X 3 and Robson contrived to miss. On another day he has 4 assists. Personally I really want him to stay.

 

Posted on here re Cammy & Carlisle last Saturday. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they turned their attentions to Jesse instead. He's work in progress but the scout seemed impressed with him, enough to ask half a dozen or so questions (age and background related) anyway. 

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17 hours ago, harry94 said:

I get a feeling we might make a really big mistake if we let him go tbh.

I actually quite like him all round. Sometimes I want to throttle him but he's got that explosive energy and I don't really agree that he's that bad defensively, his stint at right back was disastrous but I think it has seen him develop awareness a bit.

For me, it's definitely worth giving him another shot if we can and I think his late development is because we've spent so long moving him around but he has finally found his position. I really fear we'll let him go and he'll come good for a rival.

I wasn't too disappointed when Martin Boyle left but he only converted to a winger relatively recently before that (about a year). It's not the exact same scenario but I think the positional thing is really important to remember.

I've been harsh on Jesse, but can 100% see where you're coming from harry. He frustrates the life out of me sometimes but I think we also have to factor in how bad a team he's been playing in. Often he has no other options than to take on one player too many or shoot when it really isn't what's on. 

Arguably a drop down in division could be good for the lad, if it comes to that.

You've talked me round and I'd add him to my list of keeps as well. However I'm not sure relying on him week in/week out just yet would be advisable. 

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2 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Posted on here re Cammy & Carlisle last Saturday. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they turned their attentions to Jesse instead. He's work in progress but the scout seemed impressed with him, enough to ask half a dozen or so questions (age and background related) anyway. 

Rev, could be the scout was actually there to watch Jesse and not Cammy.  Especially if he was asking more questions about Jesse.  As I said before.  How would the scout know Cammy was going to play as he had missed 9 games previously.

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