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Who do you think will be next?

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Who do you think will be the next manager?   

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  1. 1. Who do you think will be the new manager of Dundee FC?



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37 minutes ago, Spiritof62 said:

McPake would be in keeping with the FPS way of doing things.

Lots of applications, big names, experienced applicants, then hey presto it’s a guy currently coaching the U18s.

Big expectations then reality kicks in.

Im not saying Jim would be a bad appointment, it’s just that it’s a bit risky, after what has gone before.

I would not say that the names on the list that we are, there might be other names that we are not aware of, are all that inspiring. In fact McPake and Goodwin the two younger guys as far as years in management are concerned give a greater buzz than the more experienced candidates which does not say much for Scottish manager's. Adams is the best of the rest and he does not inspire much.

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8 hours ago, BigG said:

Nelms really is a clown, you would think after the season we have just had the penny would drop, but no, he’s about to appoint a manager who coached the under 18s because “he’s impressed him the last week of the season”. Jesus wept🤷🏻‍♂️

We have 7 signed players for next season, so dealing with agents and having contracts should be the biggest criteria along with knowing the division?  

We just sacked an “experienced assistant in Jimmy Boyle”?

I don't think Nelms is the problem. I think the board is the problem. Keyes is absent and there is nobody else it seems with any influence at the club.

Nelms is at a disadvantage in that he hasn't lived and breathed DFC for the last 30, 40, 50 or whatever years like the rest of us so there are always going to be gaps in his knowledge of the club and Scottish football, and that opens him up to things like the Dodds fiasco.

While I'm pretty sure that Nelms is an asset to the club and a perfectly good DFC director, there is no way he is equipped to single-handedly hire and fire managers. I don't think any one individual should have that responsibility because it's so bloody hard to get right. There needs to be debate, there needs be arguments, and I'm not sure that is happening in our boardroom.

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21 minutes ago, Cobra said:

I don't think Nelms is the problem. I think the board is the problem. Keyes is absent and there is nobody else it seems with any influence at the club.

Nelms is at a disadvantage in that he hasn't lived and breathed DFC for the last 30, 40, 50 or whatever years like the rest of us so there are always going to be gaps in his knowledge of the club and Scottish football, and that opens him up to things like the Dodds fiasco.

While I'm pretty sure that Nelms is an asset to the club and a perfectly good DFC director, there is no way he is equipped to single-handedly hire and fire managers. I don't think any one individual should have that responsibility because it's so bloody hard to get right. There needs to be debate, there needs be arguments, and I'm not sure that is happening in our boardroom.

This is pretty eloquently put. It is quite funny how pretty much all of us on here wildly disagree on a manager, the type of manager, the experience of the manager and any other prerequisites - football people have these same arguments in the press every day. It's really not an easy thing to do and it often seems totally counter intuitive with no obvious rules on what and what doesn't work.

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Our next manager might hinge on Sunday in paisley. If United go up it will be someone like mcpake but if they stay down it will be someone that will cost a but more money. The guarantee of 2 full houses with the derbies might just give the club the money to push the boat out.

Just a theory mind you

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8 hours ago, Cobra said:

Football management is unlike anything else. Nobody wants to employ Champions League winner Roberto Di Matteo because it's widely accepted that the triumph was largely about the players.

Greece sacked Claudio Ranieri after the shocking home defeat to the Faroes. Amazingly, he then won the league with Leicester and when recently appointed at Fulham he was called a "risk-free appointment" but had an absolute nightmare at Craven Cottage.

Alan Kernaghan finished runners-up to ICT with Clyde in 2004, missing out on the title by a single point. What an incredible achievement, but he then had a terrible six months at Dundee and that was his career over.

No matter who takes over at Dens this summer it's a bit of a lottery, and the manager's ability to manage is just one of many factors that will determine whether we have a good or bad season.

Harry Redknapp was once asked: "What makes a good manager?". And his response was "Good players". Our experience with Hartley would back that up.

Totally agree it’s like one of us taking a new job, sometimes your face just fits the company and everything is great and you look very capable doing your job. But then on the other hand you may join an organisation where you don’t fit the culture and it is a bad gig for you and you look like you have never done the job before, and things will never work out or get better

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I've kinda avoided the mention of any preference for the next DFC manager...

And this is based on the very sound past judgement, that my own idea of what defines and constitutes a good football manager ... Is sh**e !! :happyyes:

In the recent past, I've seen it doesn't take too much for me to believe, that any New Manager with "Dundee" in front of his title, is gonna be something really special ... (And we can awe see how that kind of judgement turned oot) I have got one or two I do prefer .. But I am scared of the "Jinx Effect" I might put on them.

However, the idea of considering bring Gordon Strachan into the equation (if I am being honest) does really excite me ... Whatever active or minor role he plays in the set-up. He's a big name & even in an advisory role, with minimum active input, should be listened to, whoever is in the leading managerial role. If DFC can procure his services, this alone, would make other Clubs stand up. But more importantly, be a big step of the promise of future success "The Mighty Dark Blue" (Okay eh got a wee bit excited again there):chaplin:

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I'm not getting the chat about giving McPake the job and appointing an experienced guy as a No2.  Surely the reverse makes more sense?  Also, what calibre of No2 would be willing to come under such a situation?  It just doesn't make sense to me unless we're thinking of a Jocky-type figure?  

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I think it might be a problem getting the good No 2 for McPake who at times we will be expected to act like a No1 and keep him on the straight and narrow. Would it not be more sensible to do it the other way? McPake could take the role that John Terry has at Villa and learn his managerial trade. A successful McPake would be the dream ticket but he won't get the time if we  start badly.  It would be a huge risk to give McPake the job after the last two poor manager selections.

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21 minutes ago, HK Blues said:

I'm not getting the chat about giving McPake the job and appointing an experienced guy as a No2.  Surely the reverse makes more sense?  Also, what calibre of No2 would be willing to come under such a situation?  It just doesn't make sense to me unless we're thinking of a Jocky-type figure?  

Peter Houston was doing exactly this with Jonathon Johansson as boss at Morton. They are out of a job no so not sure how successful it was.

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35 minutes ago, HK Blues said:

I'm not getting the chat about giving McPake the job and appointing an experienced guy as a No2.  Surely the reverse makes more sense?  Also, what calibre of No2 would be willing to come under such a situation?  It just doesn't make sense to me unless we're thinking of a Jocky-type figure?  

Agreed  👍

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I'm now convinced Mev, based on this latest announcement, got it wrong re his statement that Theresa May will be our new manager:

"Mrs May said she will continue to serve as prime minister while a Conservative leadership contest takes place.

She will step down as Tory leader on 7 June and a leadership contest is due to begin the following week."

The timing is all wrong for her to take over at Dens as she was unable to do one job adequately never mind do two at the same time. 🙄

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13 hours ago, Cobra said:

I don't think Nelms is the problem. I think the board is the problem. Keyes is absent and there is nobody else it seems with any influence at the club.

Nelms is at a disadvantage in that he hasn't lived and breathed DFC for the last 30, 40, 50 or whatever years like the rest of us so there are always going to be gaps in his knowledge of the club and Scottish football, and that opens him up to things like the Dodds fiasco.

While I'm pretty sure that Nelms is an asset to the club and a perfectly good DFC director, there is no way he is equipped to single-handedly hire and fire managers. I don't think any one individual should have that responsibility because it's so bloody hard to get right. There needs to be debate, there needs be arguments, and I'm not sure that is happening in our boardroom.

I'm not sure if the Board, and JN in particular, have paid attention to the criticism they got for the way JM was appointed, but there is a review process this time, involves at least 4 people, possibly 5....this came from a discussion at the GM last week, so it's not just rumour or assumption. They have also already talked about "the first round of interviews" this week, implying the list will be shortened, reviewed again & follow-up interviews held....unless, of course, one of the candidates was so outstanding from that first round.

Ultimately, the decision will fall to the CEO to make, but there will have been discussions, debate & several opinions involved. I'd like to think some questions may have been put to 'trusted old heads' as well, for a neutral 'experienced football' opinion on some applicants. That's just my opinion, I don't know if it happens....but Nelms has mentioned that they've talked to Craig Brown for advice occasionally, and presumably could do the same with Strachan.

As far back as the late 60's, James Gellatly had the final say, but the other directors were very much involved, and he definitely talked to '3rd parties', as I 'accidentally' (earwigging!) overheard a couple of those & walked into his office one day when one of those 3rd parties was in 'for a visit'. 

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3 hours ago, SouthsideDee said:

Peter Houston was doing exactly this with Jonathon Johansson as boss at Morton. They are out of a job no so not sure how successful it was.

Their sudden departure, joint resignation a couple of hours before one of their final few games, was reportedly caused by them being told to leave a key player out of the squad, to avoid triggering either a payment or offer of a new deal (I forget which). 

There are a lot of guys who, even with a couple of decades of experience, just don't want to be a manager, but are comfortable with the deputy role. and there are certainly other examples like Houston. Most probably tend to be part of a partnership, though, so finding one to work with our choice of manager would perhaps be a bit more of a challenge.

Having said that, there are a lot of former managers & assistants 'out of work' & maybe doing coaching or media work, who'd be likely to apply for any job that's going. 

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19 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

Their sudden departure, joint resignation a couple of hours before one of their final few games, was reportedly caused by them being told to leave a key player out of the squad, to avoid triggering either a payment or offer of a new deal (I forget which). 

There are a lot of guys who, even with a couple of decades of experience, just don't want to be a manager, but are comfortable with the deputy role. and there are certainly other examples like Houston. Most probably tend to be part of a partnership, though, so finding one to work with our choice of manager would perhaps be a bit more of a challenge.

Having said that, there are a lot of former managers & assistants 'out of work' & maybe doing coaching or media work, who'd be likely to apply for any job that's going. 

Going with this scenario and say Its James McPake that we're looking at, its possible the BOD would insist on him having an 'old and bold' assistant and ask him if he has a preference. He (or others) might have someone who he's worked with in the past who would fill the role in the way McCabe did for Hartley. 

Its fun to speculate but we'll have to wait and see.

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14 hours ago, Cobra said:

Football management is unlike anything else. Nobody wants to employ Champions League winner Roberto Di Matteo because it's widely accepted that the triumph was largely about the players.

Greece sacked Claudio Ranieri after the shocking home defeat to the Faroes. Amazingly, he then won the league with Leicester and when recently appointed at Fulham he was called a "risk-free appointment" but had an absolute nightmare at Craven Cottage.

Alan Kernaghan finished runners-up to ICT with Clyde in 2004, missing out on the title by a single point. What an incredible achievement, but he then had a terrible six months at Dundee and that was his career over.

No matter who takes over at Dens this summer it's a bit of a lottery, and the manager's ability to manage is just one of many factors that will determine whether we have a good or bad season.

Harry Redknapp was once asked: "What makes a good manager?". And his response was "Good players". Our experience with Hartley would back that up.

I agree with this and what makes a good manager is having game-changers in the team like Harkins, Stewart, Strachan and Ian Ferguson comes to mind, great player and goal-scorer to boot. Harkins could be invisible in a game, yet with one killer pass he could change the whole course of a game. A manager relies on these type of players but they do not grow on trees. 

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Still hoping for an experienced coach to come in from a club playing a division at least the equivalent of the SPFL. This is an important appointment but as we saw with Hartley you can win back to back promotions if you have the right players. Lose them and even young successful rising star managers sink, almost without trace.

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All very true points about a manager, and the arguments for and against, its the players, however a well established manager can also attract good players, if he has the right reputation and ties to the big clubs. IMO - McPake has done nothing to suggest he deserves the shot or should do.

Saturday was the players playing with freedom, not McCann or mac's tactics - there was always going to be some level of performance on sat.

Time to really do our due diligence and bring in someone who can take us forward. But thats not to say it doesnt not work - look at Ross County.......  

The Ex Sparta lad would be a wildcard, but he has trained and managed European Trophy level players.........

 

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Not long to wait now for the lucky candidate. Leaks will come out in the press over the weekend. 

Edited by Dondeh

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".....Former Ross County and Plymouth manager Derek Adams says he was approached by Dundee but doesn't want the managerial job...."

DFC News

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15 minutes ago, Dondeh said:

".....Former Ross County and Plymouth manager Derek Adams says he was approached by Dundee but doesn't want the managerial job...."

DFC News

This is the way to do things. Make an approach, get an honest reaction and move on.

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1 minute ago, BCram said:

This is the way to do things. Make an approach, get an honest reaction and move on.

I thank you 👍

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27 minutes ago, Dondeh said:

".....Former Ross County and Plymouth manager Derek Adams says he was approached by Dundee but doesn't want the managerial job...."

DFC News

Good! don't want him any where near dens. 

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Just spotted on Pie & Bovril..........

"Rumours of either a McPake/Jimmy Nicholl team or Goodwin/Houston pairing."

Thoughts?

 

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7 minutes ago, Alf Resco said:

 

Just spotted on Pie & Bovril..........

"Rumours of either a McPake/Jimmy Nicholl team or Goodwin/Houston pairing."

Thoughts?

 

I'd take Goodwin and Houston out of those options. 

Goodwin has a decent record at Alloa and will know the lower leagues so maybe aware of a few gems we can sign. Always rated Houston and he has extra motivation due to the way he left the dabs, ideal assistant manager.

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