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Jim Duffy


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2 minutes ago, eyeothedug said:

I think the fans are already realistic. We are not asking for much. Look at St J and Kilmarnock. There is no reason we can't achieve similar success.

Basically picking two of the 'lesser' teams that are having their moment in the sun and using that as the yardstick is the perfect example of what Jim Duffy is on about. 

Killie got lucky with Stevie Clarke and St. J have an owner who is VERY supportive and had land gifted to them to build the stadium on (by the VERY supportive owner). Yup, it could be us... but its not. Fine margins but if we'd won a Cup instead of say ICT I bet some would be using that as the yardstick, same as when we made top 6 without The Rangers, Hearts and Hibs. But.... but... but.... we were top 6 last season, somehow we should never get worse and only better...

Us football fans can be unreasonable creatures. :lol:

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5 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

In terms of crowds we are easily a mid table premiership club. Our budget tallies with this. An average manager would have us finishing midtable. We've just managed to pick some piss poor managers.

I remember when Duffy was manager he'd talk down our chances against the Old Firm because of the difference in budget. Unsurprisingly we were pumped silly in most of these games. Do you think Clark gives his players this excuse?

Also unsurprisingly Duff managed to get us relegated twice and Hibs once. 

I wouldn't really listen to much he has to say albeit he was the best centre half I've ever seen for Dundee.

Duffy's approach with his players might have been different with his required press briefings.

As I've said, us fans can choose to latch on to stuff that suits us, it doesn't mean its what is really going on. Aren't managers supposed to use every angle they can, the press conference is one of those and to assume that the OF only beat us because the manager said to the press that it would be a big ask is frankly ludicrous. 

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I've always thought we're more impatient than unrealistic. As soon as we're promoted we're anticipating jumping up the ladder to 6th place. A few years ago, on another forum, we debated how, for example, Saintees progress up the league had been slow....as with ICT, County, and most others.

Somehow, I think we need to find a manager that attacks one rung of the ladder at a time, while our Board slowly improves our off-field stability & our facilities.

Maybe I'm just unrealistic, though?

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1 hour ago, chomp my root said:

You make it sound so easy John. Stevie Clarke was a freak appointment, he was in the area for personal reasons and Killie asked. I reckon the Scotland job is perfect for him, he'll be on a 'full time' wage for a part time job which will give him more time to spend with his family.

The other thing is (as per the Killie example above) if a manager or player is any good a bigger club will swoop in. The bigger clubs are getting bigger unfortunately. Just my opinion but Man City getting investigated for financial 'issues' is just jealousy by the clubs chasing their tails. For Dundee to make an impression it would require consistent money coming in and on a greater level than FPS have been providing (absolutely NOT a criticism), we couldn't keep Greg Stewart amongst others because as his stock rose he thought he could get a better gig somewhere else. It is what it is I'm afraid, Pandora's box has been opened (ooh err) and cash is king.

Agree Clarke was a freak appointment. Even if we could afford it no guarantee of success. Look at Man U hired the highest paid in Van Gall and Jose and failed. Hamilton have survived for years with managers we wouldn't have entertained. We would have laughed at Kearney yet both finished with 1.5 times our total. Pretty obvious imo it's the players who  come in not the calibre of boss.

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1 minute ago, chomp my root said:

Duffy's approach with his players might have been different with his required press briefings.

As I've said, us fans can choose to latch on to stuff that suits us, it doesn't mean its what is really going on. Aren't managers supposed to use every angle they can, the press conference is one of those and to assume that the OF only beat us because the manager said to the press that it would be a big ask is frankly ludicrous. 

Where did I say it was the only reason? Players read newspapers though and this defeatist attitude from the manager wouldn't have helped. Results against them bore this out.

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2 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Where did I say it was the only reason? Players read newspapers though and this defeatist attitude from the manager wouldn't have helped. Results against them bore this out.

You did draw a direct comparison and you're doing it again in this post. As I said, what he says to the press and what he says to the players might be two different things, I'd be amazed if they weren't, different audiences for starters. 

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5 minutes ago, Blue4evr said:

Agree Clarke was a freak appointment. Even if we could afford it no guarantee of success. Look at Man U hired the highest paid in Van Gall and Jose and failed. Hamilton have survived for years with managers we wouldn't have entertained. We would have laughed at Kearney yet both finished with 1.5 times our total. Pretty obvious imo it's the players who  come in not the calibre of boss.

I agree with the rest of your post apart from the highlighted bit, I wouldn't say that its just the players, I'd say you have to get the right boss in. Same for any industry. I know more people who think their bosses are w4nks than people who think their bosses are good guys. Maybe with the 'player power' that seems to be prevalent its a tricky call to get a manager in who will be able to keep all the troops happy. You've given some good examples where throwing cash at it hasn't worked.

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4 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

You did draw a direct comparison and you're doing it again in this post. As I said, what he says to the press and what he says to the players might be two different things, I'd be amazed if they weren't, different audiences for starters. 

Whatever he did or said resulted in us getting humped by 3,4 or 5 in too many games vs the Old Firm and relegated twice. I'm not sure he's the most qualified the comment on our expectations.

Imo fantastic player and great guy but a poor, poor manager.

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Just now, Wattie Rojas said:

Whatever he did or said resulted in us getting humped by 3,4 or 5 in too many games vs the Old Firm and relegated twice. I'm not sure he's the most qualified the comment on our expectations.

Imo fantastic player and great guy but a poor, poor manager.

Also the guy who took us to a Cup final. No point debating how people rate him as a manager, we've seen plenty times that none of us will agree but us getting beat off the OF maybe had more to do with them having vastly bigger budgets than his press conferences. I've given up reading the hackneyed guff from the press conferences, its absolute froth and probably was 15 or so years ago too, I was just younger and maybe naive enough not to see it for what it was. 

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26 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

In terms of crowds we are easily a mid table premiership club. Our budget tallies with this. An average manager would have us finishing midtable. We've just managed to pick some piss poor managers.

I remember when Duffy was manager he'd talk down our chances against the Old Firm because of the difference in budget. Unsurprisingly we were pumped silly in most of these games. Do you think Clark gives his players this excuse?

Also unsurprisingly Duff managed to get us relegated twice and Hibs once. 

I wouldn't really listen to much he has to say albeit he was the best centre half I've ever seen for Dundee.

Would think that our overheads might be a lot more than most clubs so although our support might be mid table perhaps the money available to spend on players is a fair bit less, and FPS financial support is not really paying for higher priced/better players.

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Basically picking two of the 'lesser' teams that are having their moment in the sun and using that as the yardstick is the perfect example of what Jim Duffy is on about. 

Killie got lucky with Stevie Clarke and St. J have an owner who is VERY supportive and had land gifted to them to build the stadium on (by the VERY supportive owner). Yup, it could be us... but its not. Fine margins but if we'd won a Cup instead of say ICT I bet some would be using that as the yardstick, same as when we made top 6 without The Rangers, Hearts and Hibs. But.... but... but.... we were top 6 last season, somehow we should never get worse and only better...

Us football fans can be unreasonable creatures. :lol:

No definitely not unreasonable. Being asked to 'be reasonable' is simply asking us to accept failure and the underachievement we constantly receive. 

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