Poor Managers.

[Spiritof62]

Has Scotland’s stock of football managers ever been poorer?

Today we saw a hyped hot ticket Robby Neilson prove himself to be a bog standard manager with little understanding of tactics and motivational skills.

The St Mirren guy is just as bad.

We have just offloaded two absolute plonkers, each lauded in their time by our media as tartan Peps in waiting.

Where are the guys that can take a bog standard side and turn them into winners, Stein (Dunfermline) Shankley (DFC) Waddell (Kilmarnock) McLean (DUFC)?

[WoodStein]

6 minutes ago, Spiritof62 said:

Where are the guys that can take a bog standard side and turn them into winners, Stein (Dunfermline) Shankley (DFC) Waddell (Kilmarnock) McLean (DUFC)?

I thought Steve Clarke might have brought a cup to Killie, if he'd stayed on, probably the closest to the 4 guys you've mentioned. They were all 'working men' outside the game, from humble backgrounds....maybe the modern young coaches are being 'pushed through' too quickly, and end up falling out of the management/coaching career quite young, too.

I suppose it's just too fanciful to think he could do that with the national team   

[Harold Finch]

The love for Steve Clarke puzzles me, Bobby Williamson won the Scottish Cup with Killie and qualified for Europe more than once, but I don't remember a love in for him. Sacked by West Brom and Reading, out of football for a year before coming to Scotland and having a good year with Kilmarnock, Clarke has been smart in taking the national job rather than trying to prove himself in England. Having said all of that I do believe he is a good coach and assistant manager.

Managers like Stein, Shankly, McLean were successful before  Bosman and agents. They were men that managed players in a way that wouldn't be acceptable these days where players and agents dictate to clubs.

[Iain T Campbell]

I think Stein would still do well even today. He was a football genius who could adjust to any situation. However, the day when Scottish manager's were in great demand down south is gone. Mind you not even English manager's are in great demand. I think Peter Houston has a point when he says that Scottish football was defined by two wingers raiding down both flanks. He thinks since we stopped playing that way we have lost our way. I think it is fair comment and it was also entertaining. Both legs of the play-off final were uninspiring and yet Neilson according to the media is a leading light and a promising up and coming manager. All he has done at Utd. is put together a bunch of hoofers. That I am afraid is the identity of the Scottish game at this particular time. We should go back to wingers. Both Stein and Shankly did well in both Scotland and Europe using two wingers.

[Gedee]

Reading down this thread, the first thing that came to mind, was the comment expressed in Harold's post..." Managers like Stein, Shankly, McLean were successful before  Bosman and agents" This my not be the only reason, but it is certainly up there (imo) Managers do not have the power & control now as they did then. I am not saying this is right or wrong ... it's the world moving on & and I'd suggest it's happening in every aspect of life.

Looking at my generation & away from football, I was raised to think, Priests, Police, Doctors & even Politicians, knew just about everything ... Things change. And in most cases, I'd say this is probably for the better. The big money that is paid by the clubs in England & some of the bigger clubs in Scotland. may mean, that it is easier for the better truly professional players to go along with the thoughts, comments, instructions of the manager (who is paid to know what he is talking about) Up here I'm no sae sure. A manager's job can become near impossible if he loses the respect, & demands too much of the players. Football managers today, are expected to know, & be able to deal with conceivable problem in an around football....And this is near impossible, if there are one, two, or more players in the dressing room, who think they know better.

The idea of a tough, disciplined, hard working manager who puts high demands & stretches his players to the limit is not  gonna be accepted these days (imo)

[petercaproni]

There is no doubt that the game is so different today and managers have a short reign at most clubs. I remember in the late fifties Dundee losing 6 games on the bounce and after that there wasn't even a whisper from the press or indeed the fans about the manager getting the sack.(I think that we went on to win the next five!) Bosman changed everything as players control to a large degree where they will be playing their football. When I was involved it was common place for managers to rant and throw things about and call players (myself included!) a lazy barsteward! That still happens but not a lot as  as managers and players generally are more educated. Shankly frightened players into performing and so did McLean. It wouldn't happen now. If players get that treatment they just move on to wherever their agent takes them. Sad a bit but true.

[GSD]

Has to be a way of sanctioning a player for being sh**e at the job brought in to do,other than the bench.Like you say they just shrug it off and piss off to warm more benches,pass go and collect dosh.Creative ways of getting the most out of the mercenary modern player?I'm out.

[Iain T Campbell]

When you go back to the Shankly, Scot Symon era it was the players that counted. Hardly anyone took notice of who the manager was. It was the Gilzeans and the Baxter's that grabbed the headlines and that is why you would find managers spending years at clubs irrespective of how the clubs were doing. It is different now when everyone is looking to the manager and a manager can be only as good as his players and his budget. Man.Cty are treble winners because they have the biggest budget simple as that. Celtic have got the biggest budget in Scotland. Ronny Dela won the title with Celtic and he wasn't that great a manager. Money talks today and if you haven't got it you are an also ran.

[BCram]

6 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

When you go back to the Shankly, Scot Symon era it was the players that counted. Hardly anyone took notice of who the manager was. It was the Gilzeans and the Baxter's that grabbed the headlines and that is why you would find managers spending years at clubs irrespective of how the clubs were doing. It is different now when everyone is looking to the manager and a manager can be only as good as his players and his budget. Man.Cty are treble winners because they have the biggest budget simple as that. Celtic have got the biggest budget in Scotland. Ronny Dela won the title with Celtic and he wasn't that great a manager. Money talks today and if you haven't got it you are an also ran.

Agree with this ^^^^

Just wish there was some way to entertain on the park and enjoy football. Think the footballers themselves could do more. I'm sure we all remember characters who interacted with the spectators, some would wind up the opposition fans, some would have a bit of banter with their own fans and some would have the occasional party trick/signature piece of ball playing skill, it all seemed a bit less serious and much more entertaining back then. I suppose everyone thinks that way as they get older but what's wrong with having training ground moves that involve some individual skill, that is delivered correctly almost every time.

Can't remember any particular exception piece of skill apart from Wright free kick. Not much for a season.

[Harold Finch]

2 hours ago, BCram said:

Agree with this ^^^^

Just wish there was some way to entertain on the park and enjoy football. Think the footballers themselves could do more. I'm sure we all remember characters who interacted with the spectators, some would wind up the opposition fans, some would have a bit of banter with their own fans and some would have the occasional party trick/signature piece of ball playing skill, it all seemed a bit less serious and much more entertaining back then. I suppose everyone thinks that way as they get older but what's wrong with having training ground moves that involve some individual skill, that is delivered correctly almost every time.

Can't remember any particular exception piece of skill apart from Wright free kick. Not much for a season.

Was listening to Paddy McCourt and Stephen Frail on Off The Ball on Saturday, they were saying how dribbling is being coached out of the youth game, at pro youth level they are taught to pass, pass, pass, collect the ball, head up, pass and move. The word they used for it was "sterile" no room for character, ability to take on players, just follow instructions.

[BCram]

39 minutes ago, Harold Finch said:

Was listening to Paddy McCourt and Stephen Frail on Off The Ball on Saturday, they were saying how dribbling is being coached out of the youth game, at pro youth level they are taught to pass, pass, pass, collect the ball, head up, pass and move. The word they used ofr it was "sterile" no room for character, ability to take on players, just follow instructions.

Thanks Harold. Makes sense to me. Don't think Messi or Ronaldo learned their football skills following these instructions.