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In the opening game against England, the girls have an incredibly soft penalty awarded against them, about 3 minutes after "it" happened, because the 'new rule' apparently determines that any form of handball in the box, including accidental, is now a pen.

In today's game, a Japanese defender puts her arm between Cuthbert & the ball, and plays the ball away from goal....the ref is looking right at the incident & shows no reaction.....halfway up the pitch, the ref signals that a VAR review is taking place....and nothing happens. 

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Really obvious in the highlights....  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48569698

Other than making life hard for themselves with a few insanely suicidal decisions (eg, CH turning her back on a soft head-height shot from edge of the box, and the other CH putting her hand on the shoulder of a striker who is then 'sniper-shot' to win a pen), it's hard to see VAR as a model of 'consistency', and to not think there's a very clear officiating bias in this tournament towards the 'big' countries. 

To her credit, Kerr refused to blame soft decisions in the first game, but I can't imagine she's going to be too happy about that denied penalty claim today.

Another good second half performance, dominating possession (& a terrific strike from Clelland for her goal, and couple of great saves from Alexander .....but they need to start this before they're 2-0 down. Certainly an element of deja vu in this, considering our mens teams earlier WC finals (for those of us old enough to remember those). 

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Said it before, I'll say it again. It's a massive waste of time and money. 

Edited by WeighorstsWang
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1 hour ago, WeighorstsWang said:

Said it before, I'll say it again. It's a massive waste of time and money. 

Certainly been more than enough inconsistent consequences already, to support that, WW.

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At the risk of being rude, I wish they'd just leave the game the f**k alone. 

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1 hour ago, barkblue said:

At the risk of being rude, I wish they'd just leave the game the f**k alone. 

It was interesting to read the interview with Kenny Clark (retired ref), who thinks the change in the handball law/guideline will cause a lot of controversy....the change that resulted in the penalty for England v Scotland, which no English player claimed...the ref had to stop the game 2 minutes later, to get the VAR decision, check it & then explain to both sets of players why she was giving a penalty.

"It's all very subjective and that's going to be the difficulty of it. A lot of it will come down to the interpretation of the match officials [& VAR officials if used] so it's going to be controversial."

As a few (non-Scots) pundits pointed out, when a full-back tries to cut out a cross by putting their leg out, their arms have to provide their balance, which was exactly what happened in that match. To avoid that, defenders are going to need to be coached in the Python team's 'Ministry of Funny Walks'.

So, they introduce a video review system to help refs decide on hard-to-see incidents....and the following year, they make the most subjective of those incidents (accidental/close-up handball) even more subjective. Great idea. Next step, stop the clock when the ball's out of play, let managers call timeouts....then they might as well change the shape of the ball.

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9 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

It was interesting to read the interview with Kenny Clark (retired ref), who thinks the change in the handball law/guideline will cause a lot of controversy....the change that resulted in the penalty for England v Scotland, which no English player claimed...the ref had to stop the game 2 minutes later, to get the VAR decision, check it & then explain to both sets of players why she was giving a penalty.

"It's all very subjective and that's going to be the difficulty of it. A lot of it will come down to the interpretation of the match officials [& VAR officials if used] so it's going to be controversial."

As a few (non-Scots) pundits pointed out, when a full-back tries to cut out a cross by putting their leg out, their arms have to provide their balance, which was exactly what happened in that match. To avoid that, defenders are going to need to be coached in the Python team's 'Ministry of Funny Walks'.

So, they introduce a video review system to help refs decide on hard-to-see incidents....and the following year, they make the most subjective of those incidents (accidental/close-up handball) even more subjective. Great idea. Next step, stop the clock when the ball's out of play, let managers call timeouts....then they might as well change the shape of the ball.

This is certainly how I feel towards it all.

I know that nearly all high profile games are televised live now and all the major tournaments are. However, we've basically decided to make the game a TV experience over everything else.

Do we want all of the decisions to be correct? I'd say that yes, of course we do. But if we get to a stage where we have stoppages and decisions made that you end up, in the ground, having zero idea why it's happening, then what's the point of going to the game in the first place? Then add in laws being laid down that go against everything natural about actually playing the damn thing, then what's left? 

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On 15/06/2019 at 17:42, WeighorstsWang said:

Said it before, I'll say it again. It's a massive waste of time and money. 

After watching only the two Scottish Games on TV, I've managed to turn a full circle on this Wood .... I was all in favour of VAR before.

It's early days yet & it may improve (it certainly cannae get much worse) But on the basis of what I've seen (dithering) It's NO now for me :sadno:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48568921

(Link above is to Erin Crawford's New Column for BBC .... No mind-blowing stuff (mair a gentle blether, which suits my unsophisticated mind)

I notice, she mentioned the word "gallus" in the article. If anyone watched the game onTV, one of the commentators, described Erin, as a "gallus

player" ... His (English) associate said... "Yes she certainly is" The scottish guy said.... "Dae ye ken whit eh mean?" The english guy said... "No, not

really, but I lke the sound of it"... "Anyway what does it mean" Scots guy responded by saying...  "I'm no sure?"  (The subtitles on the TV, which I've

on nearly all the time (deefish) went all over the place during this exchange And  (aboot 3 minutes efter) decided the word was... "GALLANT" :wacko:

NO A DIG AT THE ENGLISH. I GUESS EH JIST FIND SOME LOCAL WORDS/PHRASES FUNNY)....All together noo 3 cheers for the wifies:chaplin:

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On 15/06/2019 at 17:42, WeighorstsWang said:

Said it before, I'll say it again. It's a massive waste of time and money. 

VAR? Or wummins fitba? 👀

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VAR Rules! goalie off the line and France get a second chance to score at a penalty. Let's just hope that ALL goalies are given the same treatment. Who is in charge of the VAR? Is it a member of the team of ref and assistants, 4th official and a VAR official? Seems to me that there's a lot more to running VAR in football and the laws of the game will need to be changed. Scottish penalty decisions seemed inconsistent. Still the same old problem the big teams get the decisions and the wee teams suffer.

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On 18/06/2019 at 14:23, BCram said:

VAR Rules! goalie off the line and France get a second chance to score at a penalty. Let's just hope that ALL goalies are given the same treatment. 

Certainly worked tonight against Scotland. 

Stonewall penalty missed, then 2 minutes later we go to a screen to take a further 2 minutes to decide to actually give the stonewall penalty as had to decide if someone is offside about 4 touches before the tackle. 

So may I just repeat :

On 15/06/2019 at 17:42, WeighorstsWang said:

Said it before, I'll say it again. It's a massive waste of time and money. 

 

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3-0 up with 15 minutes to play and then level in the fourth minute of stoppage time. That was a first-rate bottle job the men would be proud of.

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14 minutes ago, Double Blue said:

VAR against Scotland again twice tonight BUT 3-0 up we should never have got into that position tonight.

A shambolic farce. Looked like she may have got to ghethe ball first .Then it takes an age to get sorted out. Then keeper saves it. Then she is penalised because she moved forward off her line. Then the referee blows the final whistle and neither team knew why. 

But correct should never have been in that position .

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4 minutes ago, Cobra said:

3-0 up with 15 minutes to play and then level in the fourth minute of stoppage time. That was a first-rate bottle job the men would be proud of.

Added a new level of disaster a level above the men. What is it about football and our nation 😳

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Scotland had a great chance at 3-0 and a ricochet that could've went anywhere at 3-1. They really needed to shut up shop at 3-0 but they only seem to know how to play one way and that's to attack no matter what. The penalty incidents and VAR were a joke and the time at the end was short by a good few minutes if you add injury time. The ref played for 2 minutes after the pen but the play was stopped for around 8.

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Maybe harsh but poor game management from the Scotland coach again imo.  3-0 up and they are going flat out for a 4th playing like they are 3-0 down.  The right back was a weak link all game and out on her feet 2nd half but wasn't subbied until it was 3-2.  We have some really good players all the same.

If anything it appears VAR is making the game more contentious.  It just gives Refs and the 'experts' in the 'VAR room' more time to make wrong decisions.

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8 minutes ago, Attilio said:

Maybe harsh but poor game management from the Scotland coach again imo.  3-0 up and they are going flat out for a 4th playing like they are 3-0 down.  The right back was a weak link all game and out on her feet 2nd half but wasn't subbied until it was 3-2.  We have some really good players all the same.

If anything it appears VAR is making the game more contentious.  It just gives Refs and the 'experts' in the 'VAR room' more time to make wrong decisions.

Agree - and to make two substitutions when defending a corner?!?!? 

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8 minutes ago, Attilio said:

Maybe harsh but poor game management from the Scotland coach again imo.  3-0 up and they are going flat out for a 4th playing like they are 3-0 down.  The right back was a weak link all game and out on her feet 2nd half but wasn't subbied until it was 3-2.  We have some really good players all the same.

If anything it appears VAR is making the game more contentious.  It just gives Refs and the 'experts' in the 'VAR room' more time to make wrong decisions.

That's the way I saw it. Coach froze and didn't seem to understand that at 3-0 up we needed some fresh legs in defence.

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Would like to know how var is supposed to work. Does time taken to work out the decision mean that the clock stops while the ref is making up their mind?

Looked to me as though the Scottish player did touch the ball first. It wasn't much of a touch. What's the law?

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Never felt comfortable even at 3-0, manager is partly to blame but individual errors let them back in it.

VAR is not working when it takes this long to come to a decision.

Who the hell has came up with this penalty rule? It’s spoiling the game for me. First I noticed the game changes when Man U get the ridiculous penalty against PSG last minute for hand ball.

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Nothing to do with the final result tonight, that was down to Scotland and not much else.

However, as a spectator sport we are slowly strangling the game. At the rate of change and with the things that are continually being altered I give it three or four years and I'll be doing something else with my time. 

Stop-start. Constant overturning of decisions. It hasn't stopped payers hounding the ref, or play acting, or diving. Total nonsense. 

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1 minute ago, BCram said:

Would like to know how var is supposed to work. Does time taken to work out the decision mean that the clock stops while the ref is making up their mind?

Looked to me as though the Scottish player did touch the ball first. It wasn't much of a touch. What's the law?

It seems to me the folk in the control room that are controlling the replays that are shown are directly influencing final decisions by what views are shown to the referee.  Before this ref went over to the sideline for a look, there was a slow motion replay that appeared to show the defender getting the faintest of touches first (when at first I thought it was a stonewaller).  I didn't see that particular replay being shown to the ref.  On the views shown to the ref I don't think it was possible to tell if it was a penalty or not.  Ultimately we have 'technology' but in the end it is down to human interpretation of what you see in front of you on a TV screen.  If you are a clueless Ref, chances are you might still make a shyte decision.

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There's going to be more discussed about Var than the rest of the game. Every penalty the keeper moves and there's usually about 6 players at least in the box when the ball is kicked. What happens then ?

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12 hours ago, Attilio said:

It seems to me the folk in the control room that are controlling the replays that are shown are directly influencing final decisions by what views are shown to the referee.  Before this ref went over to the sideline for a look, there was a slow motion replay that appeared to show the defender getting the faintest of touches first (when at first I thought it was a stonewaller).  I didn't see that particular replay being shown to the ref.  On the views shown to the ref I don't think it was possible to tell if it was a penalty or not.  Ultimately we have 'technology' but in the end it is down to human interpretation of what you see in front of you on a TV screen.  If you are a clueless Ref, chances are you might still make a shyte decision.

Absolutely this^^^^

The momentum changes throughout a game and that has a direct effect on how refs act, IMO. Must be the same for the VAR watchers. Scotland seemed to have a strong shout for a penalty before the Argentines got their penalty. You could see from the first replay of the actual view that the ref had that the Scottish defender clearly got a small but significantly the First touch. The ref saw that and immediately signalled no penalty. subsequently there was one review that showed that Scottish first touch but it seemed to me that every other view was chosen to undermine the whole concept that the Scottish defender actually touched the ball first. I don't know the laws but surely that must count for something. Attackers get the slightest touch before the defender and it is a penalty if there is contact, why isn't it the same for defenders, and a clear case of penalty being denied.

Still should never have been in the position that they found themselves so the team and the coach need to look at themselves, IMO.

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41 minutes ago, BCram said:

Absolutely this^^^^

The momentum changes throughout a game and that has a direct effect on how refs act, IMO. Must be the same for the VAR watchers. Scotland seemed to have a strong shout for a penalty before the Argentines got their penalty. You could see from the first replay of the actual view that the ref had that the Scottish defender clearly got a small but significantly the First touch. The ref saw that and immediately signalled no penalty. subsequently there was one review that showed that Scottish first touch but it seemed to me that every other view was chosen to undermine the whole concept that the Scottish defender actually touched the ball first. I don't know the laws but surely that must count for something. Attackers get the slightest touch before the defender and it is a penalty if there is contact, why isn't it the same for defenders, and a clear case of penalty being denied.

Still should never have been in the position that they found themselves so the team and the coach need to look at themselves, IMO.

Probably, just a penalty, but once again, the lassie absolutely throws her arms as far in the air and a massive dive. She actually manages to look at the ref as she flies through the air. Pixxtake.

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