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I like Cammy. I get the feeling he'd rather spend a night in Rose West's cell than wear tangerine.

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On 09/09/2019 at 23:10, Head Shaker said:

He did but he was up against a centre half playing full back if I remember correctly.

I think McDaid would rather play on the right if I remember rightly, which means we have been playing him out of position apart from the Ayr match.

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Just a thought but do we give enough thought about the performance of the opposition when we judge our players? I remember having a horrible time playing myself as an attacker because the guy marking me was so f**cking strong and alert.

We were all thrilled about the Hemmings signing but what use is Hemmings without Stewart's vision? I suppose we'll find out this season.

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56 minutes ago, BCram said:

Get them to say what the tactics were for the game, explain why it didn't work, or possibly why it did work, at least show some awareness of tactics. Why, when things go wrong, can't the players see what needs fixing and just do it? I don't think players are automatons who can only follow limited instructions, yet that's the way their performances come across. We didn't expect that, we talked about defending at set pieces, we just seemed a bit off the pace, there's a whole range of cliches and the question that needs to be answered is WHY?

 

That's a constructive answer BC. However, I don't really expect many players to give a full critique of the work the manager has done with the players in the lead up to a game. Firstly, it's giving away too many 'secrets' of what they do and secondly, the player might inadvertently make the manager look like a bit of a fuckwit and I'm not sure that helps too many people, to be honest.

Ultimately, paper talk is paper talk. It's meaningless, changes nothing and merely gives those looking to poke holes more ammunition to do so. Personally, the conclusion I came to a long time back (and the reason I stopped keeping scrapbooks) is that it's all platitudes and nonsense and only done because the clubs want to keep the press on side as much as possible. 

I glance at headlines in papers but the stuff, especially, in the Tully, is utter garbage trotted out by players and managers and out together by awful 'journalists' purely because the clubs have to say something (McCann got it in the neck regularly when there wasn't daily 'updates'. There's zero value to any of it and there never will be, so I simply don't read it. At the risk of sounding a bit up myself, for those who get upset by it I'd advise doing the same, because it's never going to change. 

As for the bit in bold, from my limited time playing, it's really, really difficult to see where the issues are when you are actually on the park and simply change them as a unit without stopping and having the opportunity to actually talk through the tactical change and one player just deciding to go off script effects every other player too and seldom in a positive way. That's why even most managers try to do that sort of thing at half time even when it's hitting the fan. Take the Dunfermline game for example. Clearly 3 at the back wasn't working. McPake tried to change it after 10-15 minutes and push McGee into midfield and go flat back 4 but we looked even more of a shambles. He got them in at half time, made a substitution, got his message across, and hey presto we looked like a different team. 

Not being funny mate, but because the season hasn't started well, folk are getting more and more het up and more and more detached from how things really work. How many managers or players from any other team appear in the press and lay their tactics out for the press/fans and explain exactly where things went wrong? Very few, if any. And truthfully, I doubt many managers know why a more talented group of players end up getting scalped from the likes of Elgin, so how can they explain it other than by saying how much they feel angry and let down by the players? 

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6 hours ago, Cobra said:

I like Cammy. I get the feeling he'd rather spend a night in Rose West's cell than wear tangerine.

We all would Cobra, we all would!  

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23 hours ago, BCram said:

Think this is the sort of mindset that is the root of all our troubles. It is fairly obvious that our players just don't work hard enough against lower league clubs. To use a recent phrase, we should go out and batter them.

Winning games by expending the minimum amount of effort or using superior fitness or having better technical skills only happens by putting more effort into the game than the opposition. 

Our players need to take responsibility for their performances, and our coaching team need to stop mucking about with ideas how to play. Just batter the opposition!

B maybe I didn't phrase my self properly, I agree with all you say, but what I was trying to say was as I know nothing about Alloa's form if we play our best and they play their best it should be a win for us.

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17 hours ago, Attilio said:

Cammy running full pelt with the ball from his own goal towards the half way line. Gets to the half way line and sees an opponent in front of him. 'Phuck me' he thinks. 'I'd better stop, turn around and pass it backwards'

Cue a shake of the head and a big sigh from me.

I can see your point, and occasionally feel the same, recalling that Cammy at his POTY-season-best, used to keep going, till he was brought down....then we were 75 yards up the pitch, and had Stewart on the dead balls. We 'know' he was subsequently coached to stop doing that & stay in his 'compartment' of the pitch, sadly.

However, we've now seen that he has another option when he gets to that decision-making point....to cut inside, and wallop the ball into the net....and some 'wallop' it was, about as good as Stewart's far post curlers. And, it was off his 'weak' foot!

I trust he'll be encouraged to try that a wee bit more often.

In the first half v Elgin, Cammy often ended up just inside their half, Todd on the touchline, and either Byrne or Ness or Gowser inside, and the 3 of them played 'triangles' for a while, trying to create an opening for Todd to get beyond the left back. That happened a few times, but I thought Elgin's left back had a very sound game, good positional sense & never left Todd in space....clearly a very experienced player, as were their central defenders who gave Hemmings nothing.

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Are we being too harsh because of the derby scoreline? 

We have a brand new team and gaffer so it was always going to take a bit of time to gel and learn our best team. 

Every new signing has played well individually in spells and we've had spells where we've played well as a team.

I think we've played too many defensive midfielders at times and this hasn't helped the connect to the forwards. A lack of pace and forward momentum in midfield hasn't helped either. Too many times we play the easy sideways pass instead of the forward one. Finn coming back should help with this but we also need players to run off the recipients of these forward passes. 

In conclusion I'd start with Finn and one of Ness and Byrne with 2/3 quicker more forward thinking players: Todd, Nelson, Mcdaid, McPake. Pace causes havoc in this league as we saw with McMullan and pawlett. If Finn doesn't play I'd play gowser and one of Ness and Byrne. 

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18 hours ago, Attilio said:

Cammy running full pelt with the ball from his own goal towards the half way line. Gets to the half way line and sees an opponent in front of him. 'Phuck me' he thinks. 'I'd better stop, turn around and pass it backwards'

Cue a shake of the head and a big sigh from me.

Yes Cammy does that but the problem really is that we don't have anyone WIDE to pass to . Our "wingers " stand 10-15 yards in the pitch and are facing their own goal when they get a pass so instead of being on the half turn when they receive the ball to get their first touch forward they pass it back the way. So to be fair Cammy and Marshall on the other side son't have many options, hence the reason they stop and then pass it back. Frustrating I agree but there is a reason. But Attilio I do share the sigh ! 

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57 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Are we being too harsh because of the derby scoreline? 

We have a brand new team and gaffer so it was always going to take a bit of time to gel and learn our best team. 

Every new signing has played well individually in spells and we've had spells where we've played well as a team.

I think we've played too many defensive midfielders at times and this hasn't helped the connect to the forwards. A lack of pace and forward momentum in midfield hasn't helped either. Too many times we play the easy sideways pass instead of the forward one. Finn coming back should help with this but we also need players to run off the recipients of these forward passes. 

In conclusion I'd start with Finn and one of Ness and Byrne with 2/3 quicker more forward thinking players: Todd, Nelson, Mcdaid, McPake. Pace causes havoc in this league as we saw with McMullan and pawlett. If Finn doesn't play I'd play gowser and one of Ness and Byrne. 

I'd add Josh Mulligan to the list of pacey forward thinking midfielders.

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They should be on the touchline looking along the line pushing high to the last defender when the full back makes a run or has the ball.A midfielder should be available inside to play a FIRST time ball inside the back,where Todd,Mcdaid are primed to steam on to the thru ball ,turn the defence and get a decent cross in.Do this multiple times,over and over,practised in training,and the rocket may leave the launch pad.........

Varieties of the same basic play may occur as confidence in your teammates increases,this used against stuffy defensive systems may work.WTF do I know about modern football...................

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With only 3 victories this season and the latest defeat against Elgin, albeit in an empty Dens Park and in a Diddy Cup - I'm beginning to review my adverse reaction to 4-5-1 against teams like Elgin, Alloa, Arbroath etc.

My other concern was for the Manager. Having signed Johnson and Hemmings on decent money contracts and Nelson already in place and and pushing hard for a start, I could not fathom JMP leaving 2 of the 3 on the bench or even one left in the stand.

Now, I'm at the point I don't care WTF the formation is. Don't care what striker might be upset at being on the bench or in the stand. 3 points are the be all and end all. That's all that matters right now and for the foreseeable future.

So, if a 4-5-1 or a  5-5-0 formation against 'Civil Service Strollers', resulted in 3 points, then so be it 😀     

Edited by Dondeh

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Reading McPakes interview in the courier today I wonder if he might try and play all three strikers on Saturday. If so I wonder if a 4-3-1-2 would be the option with Ness, Fin and Byrne as the 3 and Nelson playing as the 1 in a free role behind Johnson and Kane?

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40 minutes ago, bjs said:

Reading McPakes interview in the courier today I wonder if he might try and play all three strikers on Saturday. If so I wonder if a 4-3-1-2 would be the option with Ness, Fin and Byrne as the 3 and Nelson playing as the 1 in a free role behind Johnson and Kane?

Ness struggling with a knock. 

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16 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Ness struggling with a knock. 

A knock? He needs to toughen up like. Seems he’s one of these boys that the slightest little thing will keep him out. 

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12 minutes ago, Dundeefc1783 said:

A knock? He needs to toughen up like. Seems he’s one of these boys that the slightest little thing will keep him out. 

Exactly, modern day footballers all have a bit of the Daniel Sturridge about them. 

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18 hours ago, Cobra said:

 I remember having a horrible time playing myself as an attacker because the guy marking me was so f**cking strong and alert.

 

Nah you were just p1sh cobra 😉

Lat time i played in a proper game , was on trial - i got brought down in box (i did dive/rolled about all the dramatics ) took the ball of own player - bear in mind , first time playing with this team - took the penalty -    GREAT SAVE from there keeper !

Afterwords told they had enough cover in my position 🤔

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Revisited my team for Saturday:

        Hamilton

Kerr Forster McGhee marshall

          Finn     Byrne

Mcdaid     Nelson.   McPake

            Johnson

 

Sharp Mackie meekings Gowser Todd hemmings Mulligan

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27 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Revisited my team for Saturday:

        Hamilton

Kerr Forster McGhee marshall

          Finn     Byrne

Mcdaid     Nelson.   McPake

            Johnson

 

Sharp Mackie meekings Gowser Todd hemmings Mulligan

Don’t think it will be to far away but I reckon JMcP will look to find a space for Meekings 

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38 minutes ago, Wattie Rojas said:

Revisited my team for Saturday:

        Hamilton

Kerr Forster McGhee marshall

          Finn     Byrne

Mcdaid     Nelson.   McPake

            Johnson

 

Sharp Mackie meekings Gowser Todd hemmings Mulligan

Swap hemmings for Johnson and I'd go with that. But it's starting to be a bit like McCann's tombola again with line ups 

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