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TheDarkBlues

Roberts, What a Waste of Talent.

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Just watched one of our first games against Celtic when we got back into the Premiership and the now manager scored in the first minute. Got to say I had totally forgot about Roberts playing for us, and what a waste of a talent. The first half he tore Celtic a new one, some of his passes into the box are what we are missing right now.

Love the fact that after Sparky scored against us, he turns to the Derry to say sorry!

 

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Created more chances in that game than the three times we played them last season. 

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Roberts got like 4 assists in only really having a few starts, it was a surprising signing at the time but we did very quickly understand why Hartley took the gamble. It's funny to compare him with Boyle who wasn't anywhere close to him in footballing ability (but really blessed with pace) and see the disparity in where they ended up.

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12 minutes ago, harry94 said:

It's funny to compare him with Boyle who wasn't anywhere close to him in footballing ability (but really blessed with pace) and see the disparity in where they ended up.

Boyle then went on to get better coaching at Hibs under Neil Lennon and really improved, his career has been curtailed somewhat by injury of late but looked a top player before this. What happened with Roberts?

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Still haven't forgiven Boyle for not squaring to Tankulic.

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1 hour ago, 8utters said:

Still haven't forgiven Boyle for not squaring to Tankulic.

There was a 10% chance Boyle could find the net himself and be able to claim the personal glory of scoring the winning goal against Celtic or a 90% his team could record a rare win over the champions if he squared the ball. Boyle went for the former. Unforgivable.

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10 minutes ago, Cobra said:

There was a 10% chance Boyle could find the net himself and be able to claim the personal glory of scoring the winning goal against Celtic or a 90% his team could record a rare win over the champions if he squared the ball. Boyle went for the former. Unforgivable.

Wasn't his final decision making an issue which ended his playing time at Dens Park or was it his training at Dens the actual issue? Because he seems to have gotten better once he moved to Hibs with the training he got there.

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39 minutes ago, TheDarkBlues said:

Wasn't his final decision making an issue which ended his playing time at Dens Park or was it his training at Dens the actual issue? Because he seems to have gotten better once he moved to Hibs with the training he got there.

Yeah his decision making was a problem for us. Even still, that Celtic game was particularly hard to take. He did brilliantly to stretch them out wide but couldn’t do the easy bit.

There have been a few times when Dundee players have done something inexplicable to cost us and I know I’ll always remember it. Boyle at Dens was one. A more recent example was when we were reduced to 9 men at Pittodrie after two freak injuries and decided not to put the ball out of play... with inevitable consequences.

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59 minutes ago, TheDarkBlues said:

Wasn't his final decision making an issue which ended his playing time at Dens Park or was it his training at Dens the actual issue? Because he seems to have gotten better once he moved to Hibs with the training he got there.

In fairness to him and the club, his limitations were a really hard thing to nurture here. I've always thought that Hartley has gotten a lot of harsh rap for it.

Hibs in the second tier were vastly superior to most of the league, if he's playing for them, he's getting plenty of the ball and opportunities over the top to use his pace and get in behind teams. Even Hibs in the top flight, usually a strong side who finish top half with a spine through them that is going to stroll through hitting that 40 points mark and that's what they were under Lennon.

At Dundee, even a good season sees us not too far away from the relegation zone and we were tight to it in 14/15. Less possession of the ball on average and a lot less defensively robust, Boyle has got to play a lot of the game keeping his discipline and any f**k up is going to be much harsher on the team.

I know I'm in the minority but I genuinely think one of the smarter decisions of Hartley's management career was to try and find a way to not rely on him in the second half of that season, some of his performances were appalling and it was really damaging how he would be the route to just giving the ball away so often and falling flat on his face from stationary positions. In an ideal world, we would have sent him on a wee loan where he could have gotten a bit of game time away with some of the issues Dundee posed to his game but it was a very urgent situation at the time and he was always at the stage of his career where he'd have wanted to go on and try to develop himself in any case - I think he'd have done well here but I don't think there was any way he was staying when his contract just had a year to run.

I'd say though that overall, he had a decent Dundee career in the short time he had. He come up from Montrose and it took him a year to get his first start but he worked his way into things and become a big player in the second half of the promotion season. Maybe we should have taken a wee chance in the summer and tried to get him signed up for longer term but I think there were always question marks and is one of these things that is just much easier in hindsight.

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5 hours ago, Cobra said:

There was a 10% chance Boyle could find the net himself and be able to claim the personal glory of scoring the winning goal against Celtic or a 90% his team could record a rare win over the champions if he squared the ball. Boyle went for the former. Unforgivable.

It was a shockingly bad decision by Boyle, but pretty much in line with the rest of his time with us. Blistering pace but rarely knew himself what he was going to do next and regularly made the wrong decision when it came to passing / shooting.

Still think we should have kept him though for the effect his pace had / has on the opposition.

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7 minutes ago, 8utters said:

It was a shockingly bad decision by Boyle, but pretty much in line with the rest of his time with us. Blistering pace but rarely knew himself what he was going to do next and regularly made the wrong decision when it came to passing / shooting.

Still think we should have kept him though for the effect his pace had / has on the opposition.

Yeah 8utters you're right. Maybe I'm being too harsh in suggesting he went for personal glory instead of giving his team the win. His decision-making was simply hopeless.

I just played football for a long time as a winger and I knew exactly what I was doing every time that I took a shot. I wanted to score rather than squaring for a team-mate for an easier chance. 

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3 minutes ago, Cobra said:

Yeah 8utters you're right. Maybe I'm being too harsh in suggesting he went for personal glory instead of giving his team the win. His decision-making was simply hopeless.

I just played football for a long time as a winger and I knew exactly what I was doing every time that I took a shot. I wanted to score rather than squaring for a team-mate for an easier chance. 

It's easy to become blind to everything around you when the goal is in sight. The knack is to make sure you hit the target, otherwise you're in trouble!

Boyle was a (another) player we didn't fully appreciate until he left. I was guilty of that myself.

Hopefully when he returns from his latest injury he still has his pace or he will be seriously limited as a threat for Hibs.

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2 minutes ago, 8utters said:

It's easy to become blind to everything around you when the goal is in sight. The knack is to make sure you hit the target, otherwise you're in trouble!

Boyle was a (another) player we didn't fully appreciate until he left. I was guilty of that myself.

Hopefully when he returns from his latest injury he still has his pace or he will be seriously limited as a threat for Hibs.

I thought Harry gave a great assessment of Boyle earlier in the thread but I'm not sure he was underrated by Dees. He wasn't performing for us and it was that experience playing for a big club in relatively weak league that made him. How many wingers get to play in a Hibs team in the Championship that can rotate a dozen attackers? Boyle arguably got a bit lucky there but good luck to him. He turned his blistering pace into an end product.

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24 minutes ago, 8utters said:

Boyle was a (another) player we didn't fully appreciate until he left.

Will always remember the game where Boyle managed to go through 3 left-backs against Hamilton.   He managed to get the first two sent off lol

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3 minutes ago, TheDarkBlues said:

Will always remember the game where Boyle managed to go through 3 left-backs against Hamilton.   He managed to get the first two sent off lol

That was the game where Hamilton should have been down to 7. Boyle scored the winner and tore them apart. Probably his finest moment in Dark Blue.

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