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BillDee62

So Where Is It Going Wrong?

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this is not a post to knock our manager, but we are we getting it so wrong especially against united ?

is it the inexperienced manger, the players not turning up, the tactics on the park or all of above ?

on paper we have a good team, but we are not winning confidentially against teams that on paper we should be well ahead of.

why can't we just get our sh*t together for once?

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If we have a good team on paper and I think we do, then it has got to be down to the manager who doesn’t know how to get the best out of these players 

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We've needed an experienced manager since Paul Hartley was sacked; the club was in a good place at that time although it had fallen apart for Hartley.

Unfortunately John Nelms doesn't think so and has gone for inexperienced permanent appointments and his shout on McIntyre was just so, so wrong.

It's difficult to blame the manager, he was offered it and wasn't going to turn it down, fault lies with the man that offered it.

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2 minutes ago, gblue said:

If we have a good team on paper and I think we do, then it has got to be down to the manager who doesn’t know how to get the best out of these players 

That's Exactly the problem. an Inept Clueless Inexperienced Manager, who just doesn't know, how to get the best, out of these, lazy Bar Stewards.

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McPake looks like a manager that's read a coaching manual, we roll the ball around at the back, the midfield wants time on the ball to pick a pass, the one up front puts in a lot of work outside the box trying to create space for others

We need more pace at the back, quicker in possession through midfield, let the wide players attack and keep our striker playing within the width of the penalty box

We are too soft, too slow and not streetwise enough

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8 minutes ago, Harold Finch said:

McPake looks like a manager that's read a coaching manual, we roll the ball around at the back, the midfield wants time on the ball to pick a pass, the one up front puts in a lot of work outside the box trying to create space for others

We need more pace at the back, quicker in possession through midfield, let the wide players attack and keep our striker playing within the width of the penalty box

We are too soft, too slow and not streetwise enough

Too slow, too predictable.

Dorrens has a good football brain but he’s very slow as well, nobody around him has a feckin clue about finding space or making runs.

Nothing has changed we are as bad as we were under NM.

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United are an 80 point team.

At a good season, we're probably a 65 point side.

It's more emotive when it's our arch rival doing the winning but I genuinely think that United are just well ahead of the competition tbh, as much as we might shake our fists and demean them as nothing special, they have an experienced manager who has had good resources and a track record (a very good points tally from the moment he took over from a shambles of a manager last year).

I'm frustrated that we didn't put a fist on them tonight and I'm annoyed that we've spent decent money without really seeing that but this division is a grind and we've decided to invest in someone with no experience and were unlikely to see any return by now in any case. I would like to see more signs of a strategy in terms of a side that may sustain us in the next few years and reduce the amount of money we require to spend - players like McGhee, Marshall, McDaid etc are mid 20s and do seem decent investments but when we sign someone like Hemmings, I think that's a good level of resources demanding more.

For me, I personally would have given McCall or Hopkin a chance and taken a turn in style (as are the club's who have outachived us with less) but I do sympathise with McPake and think there have been a few good signs. We need to look at teams like Livi and properly think about how they are actually doing it and spending less.

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10 hours ago, harry94 said:

For me, I personally would have given McCall or Hopkin a chance and taken a turn in style (as are the club's who have outachived us with less) but I do sympathise with McPake and think there have been a few good signs. We need to look at teams like Livi and properly think about how they are actually doing it and spending less.

I feel sorry for James McPake, as he will end up being like McCann and out the door hated by our support. It is not his fault and he should never have been made manager, but I feel that he was the cheaper option. We seem like a club who will throw money at players, but at the same time skimping to save a few pennies on paying a decent wage for a decent manager with a more proven record.

I think that we have a squad there who could be pushing united, but I believe that our team selections, tactics and substitutions is killing us right now.

I want McPake to succeed, but I don't think out support will allow him that time before hounding him out the door and I don't trust John Nelms to bring the right person in the next time.

We are on a merry go round with managers right now, and that is no way a club should run. Just pay decent wages for a proven manager and we will win this league with those players.

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Dundee should NEVER appoint a rookie. Real Madrid can get away with it because they have world class players to paper over the cracks. Brechin City can get away with it because they are a part-time outfit that can exist quite happily with zero income in the fourth tier so a managerial failure can't do a lot of damage. DFC simply can't afford to take a punt on guys with zero experience. And yet we do it. Again and again.

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Just now, TheDarkBlues said:

I feel sorry for James McPake, as he will end up being like McCann and out the door hated by our support. It is not his fault and he should never have been made manager, but I feel that he was the cheaper option. We seem like a club who will through money at players but at the same time skimping to save a few pennies on paying a decent wage for a decent manager with a more proven record.

I think that we have a squad there who could be pushing united, but I believe that out team selections, tactics and substitutions is killing us right now.

I want McPake to succeed, but I don't think out support will allow him that time before hounding him out the door and I don't trust John Nelms to bring the right person in the next time.

We are on a merry go round with managers right now, and that is no way a club should run. Just pay decent wages for a proven manager and we will win this league with those players.

Problem is with that is if you look historically, how many teams a decade would really be hitting the 70 pointish region to win the league after being relegated?

In the last decade, not many. An even more massively resourced United side have failed at it a few times, we've previously spent shitloads to fail at it before and then of the relegated teams, only Hearts and the two Highlands sides. Of that, Hearts are a much bigger club than us and those two went down very competitively and kept a squad together - Inverness having Rooney then making great business with Hayes.

History shows that even with a really well funded Dundee in an average league getting relegated with a total clusterfuck season, we'd have a tight struggle getting up. Throw in a United side with more money, an established squad and manager and then it makes it even more implausible that we'd have really put up a proper fight for it.

This league drives you mad by the way success feels in reach and then falls so far away. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying anything we've seen and football isn't always logical etc but any neutral on earth would have United as mega favourites based on all the evidence we see.

For me, Thistle was my crisis of faith in the management team. I think we've done well since then and the barometer is really pinned at having a good campaign against that 60-65 point region and giving the play offs a shot.

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We came up well short. McPake should never have got the job. Unfortunately he did. John Nelms doesn't know better. He has boobed  again . McCall was  the man to go for  but JN didn't look that way. Our manager and whatever Mr Nelms calls himself are rookies. To our cost. 
 

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7 hours ago, Harold Finch said:

McPake looks like a manager that's read a coaching manual, we roll the ball around at the back, the midfield wants time on the ball to pick a pass, the one up front puts in a lot of work outside the box trying to create space for others

We need more pace at the back, quicker in possession through midfield, let the wide players attack and keep our striker playing within the width of the penalty box

We are too soft, too slow and not streetwise enough

Cant believe how many times our defence and midfield stood static with the ball at their feet wondering where to put it. Allows the other team get organised and shut down options. We are playing like that against every team, even the recent games we won.

Credit to Utd., direct, quick, forward thinking, move forward with the ball quickly and with intent. You are so right, we are way too slow and don’t know where to play the ball. 

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7 hours ago, Parcbara said:

We came up well short. McPake should never have got the job. Unfortunately he did. John Nelms doesn't know better. He has boobed  again . McCall was  the man to go for  but JN didn't look that way. Our manager and whatever Mr Nelms calls himself are rookies. To our cost. 
 

The problem with Nelms, going for McCall, would be that, McCall, would have wanted, do do things HIS way and have no interference from that Buffoon Nelms, but Nelms only wants a YES man to control.

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Please excuse me if I am being ignorant but what exactly is Gordon Strachan’s role at the club ? Surely he can see what is going on and needs to get out of his comfortable seat in the stand,put on a tracksuit get on the training ground and in the dugout and get this team organised.

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Just now, Neil Cameron said:

Please excuse me if I am being ignorant but what exactly is Gordon Strachan’s role at the club ? Surely he can see what is going on and needs to get out of his comfortable seat in the stand,put on a tracksuit get on the training ground and in the dugout and get this team organised.

Strachan's role is to look after the 'youth academy' which for me is just another Nelms fantasy to add to his stadium plans and regularly competing for trophies. I personally can't see the point in developing youth if we're employing a(nother) manager that's going to drive support away; these wonder youths will have no club to play for ultimately as we can't survive without the fans that Nelms' managerial appointments are driving away.

Good support for Nelms' club / McPake's team last night - they both let us down badly but ultimately Nelms is accountable for that disgrace.

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Amazed with the acceptance that United were somehow clear favourites, this was a club easily beaten by Alloa, Queens and Ayr, they will be humbled again by other smaller teams before the season is out...

Our manager was terrified to lose that game last night, his negative tactics were an absolute disgrace, after the 6-2 mauling earlier in the season, Neilson was probably expecting a reaction from our players especially early in the game, but there was none, boring sideway slow negative build up was the order of the day...

What has happened to James Mcpake, was such a leader on the park, as a manager he looks anything but, dreadful pre/post match interviews, so uninspiring, and a man who looks he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

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15 minutes ago, Neil Cameron said:

Please excuse me if I am being ignorant but what exactly is Gordon Strachan’s role at the club ? Surely he can see what is going on and needs to get out of his comfortable seat in the stand,put on a tracksuit get on the training ground and in the dugout and get this team organised

Great post, Strachan has to know, this is total sh**e.

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Thought it was pretty clear when he signed that Strachans role was going to be working with the youths. That was pretty clear at the time and anyone who expects to see Strachan working with the first team anytime soon is going to be disappointed. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Sensible said:

Amazed with the acceptance that United were somehow clear favourites, this was a club easily beaten by Alloa, Queens and Ayr, they will be humbled again by other smaller teams before the season is out...

Our manager was terrified to lose that game last night, his negative tactics were an absolute disgrace, after the 6-2 mauling earlier in the season, Neilson was probably expecting a reaction from our players especially early in the game, but there was none, boring sideway slow negative build up was the order of the day...

What has happened to James Mcpake, was such a leader on the park, as a manager he looks anything but, dreadful pre/post match interviews, so uninspiring, and a man who looks he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

They will be humbled by smaller teams because complaceny will set in and I also don't think its a surprise that they struggle on the plastic pitches. But in the big games when they have a big support behind them at this current point in time we won't get anywhere near them and that's not because they are great but they are organised, streetwise and direct and quite simply we are not 

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3 minutes ago, Dundeefc1783 said:

They will be humbled by smaller teams because complaceny will set in and I also don't think its a surprise that they struggle on the plastic pitches. But in the big games when they have a big support behind them at this current point in time we won't get anywhere near them and that's not because they are great but they are organised, streetwise and direct and quite simply we are not 

My point still stands, that a team like Ayr United battered them earlier in the season, the major factor a manager that had his team set up well to do that....

Our biggest problem is we have no legs in midfield, all pretty to watch especially when they get all the time in the world against the likes of Alloa and Morton but when it came to a heat of a derby they were posted missing...

Just find it unacceptable that Dundee FC didn't look up for that last night, we can all accept defeats, but not in that manner last night.

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