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  1. 1. Can Dundee still realistically win the league?



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It's over now isn't it? Well actually no. We're nine points behind and ICT came from 12 points behind us to win the league by 12 points.

United are the stronger team right now and have had the upper hand in derbies but we've shown we can string wins together in this league and they've shown they can lose games. I still think we have a chance if we can figure out our best team.

With players like Dorrans, Ness, McGowan and McDaid we have the potential to string five or six wins together and put some serious pressure on United.

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With a Rookie manager sorry but NO 

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Do I think it's possible? Yes. 23 games left for each team, 69 points to play for. all it takes is for Utd and the other current playoff teams to drop a few while we gain as many as possible. So yes, it's possible.

Do I think it'll happen? Nah.

Am I fine with that? Yes, before the season I decided I'd be happy about any playoff spot, and I feel more confident of 2nd now that our playoff opponents are f**cking up left and right. Get momentum going into the playoffs, and anything can happen.

Am I going to want McPake out after one loss to the favourites to win the title after winning 3 games in a row and 4 out of 5 prior? Nah. Anyone who does is having a heads gone.

Edited by rossbatchelor9
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28 minutes ago, rossbatchelor9 said:

Am I going to want McPake out after one loss to the favourites to win the title after winning 3 games in a row and 4 out of 5 prior? Nah. Anyone who does is having a heads gone.

I don’t want him out as he is probably performing reasonably well for someone with very little management experience  but I do wish he hadn’t been given the job in the first place. 
A positive outcome would be 2nd with James evidencing continual improvement and learning as the season progresses. 

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5 minutes ago, Valentke said:

I don’t want him out as he is probably performing reasonably well for someone with very little management experience  but I do wish he hadn’t been given the job in the first place. 
A positive outcome would be 2nd with James evidencing continual improvement and learning as the season progresses. 

McIntyre could have won this league again if we'd given him a shot at redemption but there was zero appetite among Dees to give him another chance so we had to put someone else in charge. Appointing somebody with a little experience in management might have been an idea mind you.

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4 minutes ago, Valentke said:

A positive outcome would be 2nd with James evidencing continual improvement and learning as the season progresses. 

Think we're well on track for this already. Won manager of the month a few days ago, and will hopefully continue to improve tactically. Real hope is we have good momentum going into play-offs.

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Just now, Cobra said:

McIntyre could have won this league again if we'd given him a shot at redemption but there was zero appetite among Dees to give him another chance so we had to put someone else in charge. Appointing somebody with a little experience in management might have an idea mind you.

I wasn’t suggesting Jim be kept on even he said to me he didn’t deserve to be! 

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Just now, Valentke said:

I wasn’t suggesting Jim be kept on even he said to me he didn’t deserve to be! 

I know he didn't earn the right to stay on as manager but if we wiped the slate clean I suspect he'd have done a lot better than we think.

We've been over it countless times but McIntyre is a good manager who was totally ill-equipped to fix the problems in McCann's team. He'd have been a great candidate to lead us afresh in the Championship though but the damage to his reputation among Dees was irreparable and we were never going to get the chance to see if we could do for Dundee what he did for the Pars and get us promoted.

Replacing McIntyre with McPake just shows that no stock beats low stock in the eyes of fans. Doesn't matter if you're the Basil Fawlty of management. All that matters is having a fresh face in the dugout untainted by past defeats, and if you're a former Dee then that's even better.

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I see 60% have voted no so far, which is fair enough, but I really believe things could change quite a lot over the next six months.

It seems probable that United will win the league by a dozen points (like County did last season) and if that happens I wouldn't be at all surprised BUT I think we can topple them. I don't think McPake is some kind of tactical genius. I just think with the quality, experience and intelligence in our dressing room that we are capable of doing something special this season.

McPake is a professional. Had a brilliant attitude as a player, has a great understanding of our club, he's made some shrewd signings, he's appointed a very experienced assistant. If we can all chill out and accept that things might change and improve, we might find that good times are ahead.

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It's over for me...probably was the day they signed Shankland. Of course, he may pick up injuries and won't maintain his current form all season, but he'll score enough to keep them comfortably ahead of us. One man can make the difference between an average team and a good one - points wise.

I'm absolutely not despondent - we are probably ahead of the game per my expectations when the season started. Play-off spot seemed a fair target and we're on course for that.

McPake isn't / wasn't everyone's choice due to his pedigree as a manager, or lack of. Some say it isn't his fault he was appointed - i don't totally agree. In my experience, when you stick your hand up for a task, it's because you think you can do it. Cannot hide behind lack of experience later when it goes t*ts up - not that he is as yet. With the backing he has we should be ok for the play-off spots. 

Regardless of not having our season being defined by our neighbours, reality is the better they do the worse we FEEL we are doing. No man is an island. 

Losing Derby's is sore - all of us here have experienced such pain countless times so what to do other than pick ourselves up and move on to the next game.

Down(ish) but far from out.

 

 

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You're probably right HK. I expect United to win the league at a canter but this is a strange league and we have some fantastic players. I'm not resigned to us finished behind them.

I thought we had a 10% chance of survival after the 25-point penalty. I thought we had a 10% chance of finishing top six in 2014/15. I thought United had a 1% of being relegated at Dens in 2015/16.

Us fans think we are only as good as our last game but football is so unpredictable, this league is particularly hard to predict and United are now the scalp that everyone wants. There's a long way to go.

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4 minutes ago, Cobra said:

You're probably right HK. I expect United to win the league at a canter but this is a strange league and we have some fantastic players. I'm not resigned to us finished behind them.

I thought we had a 10% chance of survival after the 25-point penalty. I thought we had a 10% chance of finishing top six in 2014/15. I thought United had a 1% of being relegated at Dens in 2015/16.

Us fans think we are only as good as our last game but football is so unpredictable, this league is particularly hard to predict and United are now the scalp that everyone wants. There's a long way to go.

I hear you Cobra - of course part of me is clinging on to the hope that the unexpected will happen but it's the same hope that is dashed 90% of the time.

That said, it really isn't a gut wrenching disappointment to find ourselves where we are - not like the feeling of losing to Utd at Tynecatle in semis, of reading that Jim Duffy's career was over or failng to beat Livi and going down

We've been much, much lower than this and plenty to look forward to this season. A play-off final against Saintees for example!

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31 minutes ago, HK Blues said:

I hear you Cobra - of course part of me is clinging on to the hope that the unexpected will happen but it's the same hope that is dashed 90% of the time.

That said, it really isn't a gut wrenching disappointment to find ourselves where we are - not like the feeling of losing to Utd at Tynecatle in semis, of reading that Jim Duffy's career was over or failng to beat Livi and going down

We've been much, much lower than this and plenty to look forward to this season. A play-off final against Saintees for example!

We both know the soul-crushing 90% reality but the Deefiant season happened.

How did Inverness go from W6 D7 L5 to W9 D0 L0 in 09/10 with the same players. It doesn't make sense. Football sometimes doesn't makes sense. I guess they had the nucleus of a great side and eventually it clicked. Well, Dundee have that nucleus, so we're still contenders IMO.

I remember saying on the official DFC message board (before it was shut down) that we had zero chance of winning the league in 09/10 even though we were top of the league around January/February. People said I was being overly negative but I could see that we were incapable of dealing with the ICT steamroller that was coming our way.

I don't have that feeling with United at the moment. They could potentially blow us out of the water but it's too early to say.

On another note, do you still live in HK? I've always had great admiration for Scots who've had the courage and adventure to settle outside of the UK? Are you embroiled in the China chaos?

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With a better Manager it could be possible but I just think that United have got their tactics spot on every time we've played them.

I still believe we have just as good a squad as them though and a more experienced man could get more out of them.

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3 minutes ago, J_Kitamirike said:

With a better Manager it could be possible but I just think that United have got their tactics spot on every time we've played them.

I still believe we have just as good a squad as them though and a more experienced man could get more out of them.

I think you're right. We're not far away. If United couldn't live with McCall's gameplan at Somerset surely to Christ we have the players to boss them over 90 minutes.

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10 minutes ago, Cobra said:

I think you're right. We're not far away. If United couldn't live with McCall's gameplan at Somerset surely to Christ we have the players to boss them over 90 minutes.

Nothing to do with players, we dont have the manager to put it all together 

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I don't think it's over its a huge task but no way it is over.

For me although Clark has chipped in with a few recently they are heavily reliant on Shankland and a serious injury to him could have major consequences on thier season. 

They might even struggle to hold onto him in January. 

So it's unlikely but it's not over by a long shot. 

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Looking at the table we've only been beaten 4 times !! only Utd are lower on 3 defeats so take out the derby games and we are very even on points ... but that's the whole point isn't it they've won the big games and by a big margin so currently winning the Championship looks slim ... but if we can keep are form up against the rest then you just never know.

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9 hours ago, Cobra said:

I know he didn't earn the right to stay on as manager but if we wiped the slate clean I suspect he'd have done a lot better than we think.

We've been over it countless times but McIntyre is a good manager who was totally ill-equipped to fix the problems in McCann's team. He'd have been a great candidate to lead us afresh in the Championship though but the damage to his reputation among Dees was irreparable and we were never going to get the chance to see if we could do for Dundee what he did for the Pars and get us promoted.

Replacing McIntyre with McPake just shows that no stock beats low stock in the eyes of fans. Doesn't matter if you're the Basil Fawlty of management. All that matters is having a fresh face in the dugout untainted by past defeats, and if you're a former Dee then that's even better.

Cobra, you know my thoughts on McIntyre getting anywhere near this club, in fact I'd rather they'd jumped for Neilson at the time but even at championship level without Billy Dodds on board I'm still not sure McIntyre would have been any better. 

Peel it back further and Jack Ross was the one that got away and we've been going backwards ever since.

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We wont claw back 9 points. 2nd is the best we can hope for but I doubt this squad have it in them to be able to do that hence why I've bet cobra we wont finish 2nd 

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