Prince Buster Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 2 hours ago, Cobra said: Every club in the country finds work for their most loyal and valued servants and I think that's the way it should be. Barry has a lot of experience and even if he's not a particularly innovative coach, I imagine a lot of the work involves routines set up by the manager or routines that are standard at all clubs so I don't think it's necessary to search the world for the ideal candidate. Jobs for the boys doesn't work in any industry. I'm not saying Barry isn't well qualified for the role he's been given, I just hope his qualifications and experience are the reasons he's been onboarded and not some misguided feeling of loyalty. I think there was an element of that with McCann's appointment and that was a total disaster as we all know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFC1974 Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 13 minutes ago, Prince Buster said: Sorry Cobra but that's just nonsense. The term journeyman has absolutely nothing to do with always being on the move. A journeyman in this context is a player who is reliable but not outstanding as explained above by HK. For me that is exactly what Barry was as Dundee player, absolutely reliable without being a real stand out. In the context of employment generally a journeyman is someone who is trained to carry out a job - usually through formal or apprentice training - and who is employed to do that job. Again that can be applied to Barry who was paid to do what he was good at as a Dundee player. So by definition Barry Smith was very much a journeyman player for Dundee, solidly and reliably going about the job he was there to do, that's not a bad thing to be fair and we would probably not be in the position we're in now if we'd had more journeymen players on the books rather than fly by night transients. According to the realisable source that is Wikipedia...we are all correct!! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_(sports) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Posted 18 November 2019 Author Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 8 minutes ago, Prince Buster said: Jobs for the boys doesn't work in any industry. I'm not saying Barry isn't well qualified for the role he's been given, I just hope his qualifications and experience are the reasons he's been onboarded and not some misguided feeling of loyalty. I think there was an element of that with McCann's appointment and that was a total disaster as we all know. Well the manager is the most important person at a football club. If there is a major flaw in one aspect of the job such as recruitment or man-management it probably will end in disaster. Don't think a managerial appointment can be compared to an appointment to the youth set-up. Our youth coaches have an influence but it's relatively limited. Barry has immense experience and I'm sure he'll be a great addition. The fact he is well known and admired at the club is a good thing because the club know what they are getting. You could hire someone with a great CV who might be a real trouble-maker. Sometimes going with what you know is a sensible move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Buster Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 8 minutes ago, DFC1974 said: According to the realiable source that is Wikipedia Well, if it's on Wikipedia...... as you say, we're all correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Posted 18 November 2019 Author Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 22 minutes ago, Prince Buster said: Sorry Cobra but that's just nonsense. The term journeyman has absolutely nothing to do with always being on the move. A journeyman in this context is a player who is reliable but not outstanding as explained above by HK. For me that is exactly what Barry was as Dundee player, absolutely reliable without being a real stand out. In the context of employment generally a journeyman is someone who is trained to carry out a job - usually through formal or apprentice training - and who is employed to do that job. Again that can be applied to Barry who was paid to do what he was good at as a Dundee player. So by definition Barry Smith was very much a journeyman player for Dundee, solidly and reliably going about the job he was there to do, that's not a bad thing to be fair and we would probably not be in the position we're in now if we'd had more journeymen players on the books rather than fly by night transients. It's not nonsense! It's a fact that journeymen in football are considered to be players who play for a lot of clubs i.e. always on the move! I agree though that limited ability is also something associated with the term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Buster Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 3 minutes ago, Cobra said: It's not nonsense! It's a fact that journeymen in football are considered to be players who play for a lot of clubs i.e. always on the move! I agree though that limited ability is also something associated with the term. Was thinking more of industry use of the term but it can be used in football to describe a player that moves about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFD Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 29 minutes ago, Prince Buster said: Jobs for the boys doesn't work in any industry. I'm not saying Barry isn't well qualified for the role he's been given, I just hope his qualifications and experience are the reasons he's been onboarded and not some misguided feeling of loyalty. I think there was an element of that with McCann's appointment and that was a total disaster as we all know. What loyalty would John Nelms have for Neil McCann? Unless the suggestion is he believed the fans would get behind him in the role as opposed to his own inclinations... or maybe Nelms deep down has a true love for Dundee that extends before when he got the job, which for some reason I doubt a decent amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Buster Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 17 minutes ago, rossbatchelor9 said: What loyalty would John Nelms have for Neil McCann? Unless the suggestion is he believed the fans would get behind him in the role as opposed to his own inclinations... or maybe Nelms deep down has a true love for Dundee that extends before when he got the job, which for some reason I doubt a decent amount. He saved the club from relegation after Paul Hartley was bagged by John Nelms, hence a bit of loyalty to him. He was also a 'club legend' so there probably was an element of trying to appease the fans an hoping we'd get right behind him in there - which many misguided fans did.. It's pretty ridiculous to even suggest John Nelms would have any love for the club before he came here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Campbell's Ghost Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 1 hour ago, Prince Buster said: Jobs for the boys doesn't work in any industry. I'm not saying Barry isn't well qualified for the role he's been given, I just hope his qualifications and experience are the reasons he's been onboarded and not some misguided feeling of loyalty. I think there was an element of that with McCann's appointment and that was a total disaster as we all know. Its always worked in football. Bosses hire their pals as “ someone I trust” and they follow them from club to club. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Lovejoy Posted 18 November 2019 Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 42 minutes ago, Prince Buster said: He saved the club from relegation after Paul Hartley was bagged by John Nelms, hence a bit of loyalty to him. He was also a 'club legend' so there probably was an element of trying to appease the fans an hoping we'd get right behind him in there - which many misguided fans did.. It's pretty ridiculous to even suggest John Nelms would have any love for the club before he came here. Strange how Neil McCann, who played 82 games during 2 spells as a player, scored 6 goals then had a disastrous spell as manager, is regarded as a club legend, yet Barry Smith, who played 368 games, scored 4 goals that had a fairytale first season in management is regarded as a journeyman with limited ability. For me we've got them the wrong way round. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Posted 18 November 2019 Author Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 32 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said: Strange how Neil McCann, who played 82 games during 2 spells as a player, scored 6 goals then had a disastrous spell as manager, is regarded as a club legend, yet Barry Smith, who played 368 games, scored 4 goals that had a fairytale first season in management is regarded as a journeyman with limited ability. For me we've got them the wrong way round. Bonetti could certainly spot a good player, he had a clear preference for foreign talent, he had money to burn and yet had no interest in replacing Barry. I wonder if some folk only respect players who go on to play for the Old Firm. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Posted 18 November 2019 Author Report Share Posted 18 November 2019 2 hours ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said: Its always worked in football. Bosses hire their pals as “ someone I trust” and they follow them from club to club. It's a bit sh*t in football and life in general that who you know is so important but at the same time how often do you see somebody come into a job who looks on paper to be a great appointment but turns out to be lazy, toxic or whatever? McIntyre e.g. brought in a bunch of guys who he'd been able to rely on in the past. Didn't work out but it was a sensible thing to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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