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Reverend Lovejoy

Nail On Head From Allan Patullo.

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Bloody hell. Absolutely brutal. Nelms will choke on his cornflakes reading that.

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Yet Again Alan, says it as it really is. Is it possible, for someone on here, to forward this Excellent piece of Journalism, to Tim Keyes.???

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The truth of the matter is, we all know, DFC have to improve.

But quality players don't grow on trees. Whit's £50 gonna buy?

GLEN KAMARA IT SEEMS Shameful, embarrassing & tragic :(

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We could never get a sell on clause as Huns would have just waited five months till summer and picked Kamara up for nothing.

All we could have squeezed out of Huns was a bigger January fee. We could not win. We would only have got a sell on clause if Kamara had a year or two left on his contract, not a short five months. The article is harsh in that respect.

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2 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

We could never get a sell on clause as Huns would have just waited five months till summer and picked Kamara up for nothing.

All we could have squeezed out of Huns was a bigger January fee. We could not win. We would only have got a sell on clause if Kamara had a year or two left on his contract, not a short five months. The article is harsh in that respect.

How I see it too, however it was going to play out we were going to be the ones getting bent over. Kamara came up here to benefit his own career and it worked out for him. For him, we're a footnote in the Glen Kamara story.

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I know I'm not seeing things to clearly just now. But I want to see some direction.

(And the pressure & worries of results, leading up to Election Day is NOT helping)

But I really feel the Club I love is slipping away from me.DFC  let's get it fixed please.

My expectations were not high for this season. And with an inexperienced manager,

I accepted finishing in the lower half at the start of the season was more than likely.

But we're needing some real guidance on the park & from those supposedly leading.

I don't understand how Tim Keyes who's invested heavily can just stand by & watch.

We need some action from him, & Gordon Strachan needs to put in some real  input.

(If that means bringing in McGhee who he has worked with before ...Then so be it)

Sorry if I'm rambling on a bit, I am just feeling seek aboot the whole thing just now :tears:

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Think Alan needs to get down to the doctors if he thinks Juventus are paying 8 million for Kamara.

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I’m so over glen Kamara. He’s a footnote in our story - we’ve had far better midfielders than him . Has everyone forgotten his lack of forward penetration . His unwillingness to shoot . His link up with deacon another with doubtful application . And his unending ability to not look bothered. I’d have kept him to piss off rangers but for no other reason . 

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Rangers are doing everything to sell Kamarra to raise funds, would be surprised if they get £8 million for him. 

Its  just another failure by the club to get the player tied down or sold for decent money in the summer.

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To me the biggest failure was McIntyre not realising back in December that Kamara could have been the difference in some games to secure 2 or 3 victories that might have got us out of jail, instead 50k was deemed better than holding on to him for another 4 months.

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I've always thought that a sell on clause should be negotiated with the player's agent when they sign for us, not when they want to leave us.

Everyone will remember the clause Kane Hemmings had in his contract when he was here first time, surely that's the time to negotiate this sort of thing.

Hemmings Agent........ Mr Nelms, my player can leave if you receive a bid of £250,000

John Nelms......I agree to that on the premise that Dundee FC also receive 10% of any sell on fee from his next transfer

Agent tells the buying club about the clause in the existing contract with Dundee and they negotiate at their end

Surely that's how it should be done rather than in the last hour of the transfer window when Rangers are williing to pay us as much as they were owe the face painter before they went bust and we are trawling through non league players in the hope a player we sign from the 10th tier of English football can become our player of the year

That is how we should have dealt with the Kamara saga

(Had to edit a few times as it was turning into a rant)

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We should have said £50k plus 10%. He was our player after all. If Rangers didn't want to agree to it then we should have kept him. He may well have been the difference between staying up and being relegated. McIntyre however thought Martin f**cking woods was a better player! 😩

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I think there is a sell on clause, as we bent over too easy, and as stated above it could have been muted when he signed for us, so maybe arsenal will get another slice of the money, I don’t think Nelms is that stupid, maybe on the playing side he is,  but on  negotiations I think he will be switched on, 😎

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45 minutes ago, Harold Finch said:

I've always thought that a sell on clause should be negotiated with the player's agent when they sign for us, not when they want to leave us.

Everyone will remember the clause Kane Hemmings had in his contract when he was here first time, surely that's the time to negotiate this sort of thing.

Hemmings Agent........ Mr Nelms, my player can leave if you receive a bid of £250,000

John Nelms......I agree to that on the premise that Dundee FC also receive 10% of any sell on fee from his next transfer

Agent tells the buying club about the clause in the existing contract with Dundee and they negotiate at their end

Surely that's how it should be done rather than in the last hour of the transfer window when Rangers are williing to pay us as much as they were owe the face painter before they went bust and we are trawling through non league players in the hope a player we sign from the 10th tier of English football can become our player of the year

That is how we should have dealt with the Kamara saga

(Had to edit a few times as it was turning into a rant)

Not sure how that would work to be honest. Are you suggesting that we agree to sell a player for X amount then inform that club that his new contract with them has to include something that was negotiated into his contract with us?. I think they'd either reduce the transfer fee they were willing to pay or tell us to F off.

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Hindsight is a wonderful thing and something afforded to journalists and supporters sitting at the side casting opinions. Not so much for managers in the thick of a relegation fight they didn't take the club into.

McIntyre was inept. In fact he was worse than that. However, the player in question wasn't covering himself in glory at the time. Martin Woods had a short but positive impact before reverting to type and we actually perked up after he arrived - before spiralling downwards rapidly again. Kamara, to most, seemed to already have cashed his Dundee chips in as soon as Gerrard showed interest.

I agree with the point above that the sell on clause should have been negotiated with the player's agent prior to him signing and that is the main failing. 

If Kamara had gone for free at the end of the season there would now be folk bemoaning that we never even got 50K for him in the transfer window when Rangers were clearly keen on him. It was a no win situation. 

I usually really enjoy Patullo's journalism but this feels more like (maybe rightly) like a story written to fit a narrative rather than the other way round. 

The biggest failing was appointing McCann... then McIntyre.... then arguably McPake. The selling of Kamara didn't get us relegated and money we never had won't be the breaking of the club. Even if we'd got £1,000,000 for him in sell ons, if Keyes walk we'll still fold as that amount only covers two season's worth of accumulating debt. (Just look across the road to see that massive transfer fees don't generate success or more money).

There are bigger fish to fry than Glen Kamara and the quicker folk stop fixating on him the better.

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13 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Not sure how that would work to be honest. Are you suggesting that we agree to sell a player for X amount then inform that club that his new contract with them has to include something that was negotiated into his contract with us?. I think they'd either reduce the transfer fee they were willing to pay or tell us to F off.

My point is that when we sign players we agree to clauses within their contract, this may be an offer that we have to accept, with Hemmings the fans thought we were going to get up to £1m for him when a fee of £250,000 was agreed with the player and the agent. We accept those clauses when we are signing these players but don't add our own clauses such as we will accept a fee of £250,000 for you with the caveat that when your next club sells you we are entitled to a 10% sell on fee.

Essentially we agree to the player's and agent's demands during signing talks but don't look after our own long term interests.

Maybe it's because we are used to signing journeymen at the end of their careers we have never had the foresight to add a sell on clause when negotiating with players.

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11 minutes ago, Harold Finch said:

My point is that when we sign players we agree to clauses within their contract, this may be an offer that we have to accept, with Hemmings the fans thought we were going to get up to £1m for him when a fee of £250,000 was agreed with the player and the agent. We accept those clauses when we are signing these players but don't add our own clauses such as we will accept a fee of £250,000 for you with the caveat that when your next club sells you we are entitled to a 10% sell on fee.

Essentially we agree to the player's and agent's demands during signing talks but don't look after our own long term interests.

Maybe it's because we are used to signing journeymen at the end of their careers we have never had the foresight to add a sell on clause when negotiating with players.

I think the buying club will just reduce what they're willing to pay in that case or that the player will reject the terms and stay where he is or move elsewhere. We only got Hemmings first time around because of the clause.

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50 minutes ago, barkblue said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and something afforded to journalists and supporters sitting at the side casting opinions. Not so much for managers in the thick of a relegation fight they didn't take the club into.

McIntyre was inept. In fact he was worse than that. However, the player in question wasn't covering himself in glory at the time. Martin Woods had a short but positive impact before reverting to type and we actually perked up after he arrived - before spiralling downwards rapidly again. Kamara, to most, seemed to already have cashed his Dundee chips in as soon as Gerrard showed interest.

I agree with the point above that the sell on clause should have been negotiated with the player's agent prior to him signing and that is the main failing. 

If Kamara had gone for free at the end of the season there would now be folk bemoaning that we never even got 50K for him in the transfer window when Rangers were clearly keen on him. It was a no win situation. 

I usually really enjoy Patullo's journalism but this feels more like (maybe rightly) like a story written to fit a narrative rather than the other way round. 

The biggest failing was appointing McCann... then McIntyre.... then arguably McPake. The selling of Kamara didn't get us relegated and money we never had won't be the breaking of the club. Even if we'd got £1,000,000 for him in sell ons, if Keyes walk we'll still fold as that amount only covers two season's worth of accumulating debt. (Just look across the road to see that massive transfer fees don't generate success or more money).

There are bigger fish to fry than Glen Kamara and the quicker folk stop fixating on him the better.

Last paragraph nail on head.

great post 👍

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2 hours ago, DarkBlueKnight said:

I’m so over glen Kamara. He’s a footnote in our story - we’ve had far better midfielders than him . Has everyone forgotten his lack of forward penetration . His unwillingness to shoot . His link up with deacon another with doubtful application . And his unending ability to not look bothered. I’d have kept him to piss off rangers but for no other reason . 

False narrative about him not going forward.Halfway through the season he had the most completed forward passes in the final third in the league. 

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