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13 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

1st was always gone.

2nd & 3rd are acceptable imo.

4th gets us a play-off chance but progression unlikely. 

Best part of 5 months still to go so nothing is nearly decided yet bar probably the top spot. Long, long way to go.

Have been looking for signs of over optimism, dark blue glasses on, am I being really daft to think that there's more sense in this post than almost any other. We are not TOXIC at all. We are just keen to see our club play well and win.

I think Rev's post says it all. There's loads of games to come and our job is to support our team.

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27 minutes ago, BCram said:

our job is to support our team.

Supported them Saturday at the cost of £24.

Same every other home game (have missed two all season) and quite a few away games including a derby where half our support didn't want to know.

Will support them again this Saturday at the cost of £24.

Have supported them season in and out through thin and thinner mainly for decades.

We do our job as fans.

That won't stop me calling out how massively disappointing this season has been from start to present so far and nowhere near good enough, the same as last season.

Was feeling a bit more optimistic too until Saturday's disaster, the latest in a series of them from a manager who should never have been giving the job in the first place after the McCann disaster.

 

Edited by CW 90+3 02/05/16
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My post was not a dig at you or any of the others who make constructive criticisms of the team, manager etc. It was meant to show that bad as though that performance was on Saturday it is quite possible to come back. I think that McPake can change things, he's not talked himself into a corner like McCann did and a bit of pressure, like calling out how disappointing this season has been so far is probably much better than just accepting things and not going back.

All good businesses learn from the complaints that they get from their customers, I would have said that in the run up to the ICT game that things had improved but there was a massive step backwards for the ICT game.

Think the team was unnerved by the possibility of Dorrans leaving and the talk that there might be some new players brought in just undermines everyone's confidence.

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1 hour ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Best part of 5 months still to go so nothing is nearly decided yet bar probably the top spot. Long, long way to go.

I like to try and keep positive too, but if we've failed to maintain any sort of consistent form in the first 6 months, it's hard to believe that will suddenly be fixed in the last 6.

Many believed a positive change in form would come about at some point last season, but it never happened beyond two or three games. It feels quite similar this season, except most don't believe in a turnaround and the quality of opponent is lesser, allowing for slightly more consistent spells.

We seem to go in monthly cycles. July and August were mixed but mostly good sans the derby. September was bad, October was really good, November was dreadful, and December was much improved. Now it's January, and the theory has held strong so far. Hopefully it is broken. Bring on February.

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31 minutes ago, rossbatchelor9 said:

I like to try and keep positive too, but if we've failed to maintain any sort of consistent form in the first 6 months, it's hard to believe that will suddenly be fixed in the last 6.

Find this hard to get my head around. We've been inconsistent but there have been some signs of improvement. The DAB game and result were a million miles from what we witnessed in the first two derbies. I don't think it's easy to build a perfect squad in 1 window, Robbie Neilson will have had at least 3 by the time they are promoted.

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2 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

1st was always gone.

2nd & 3rd are acceptable imo.

4th gets us a play-off chance but progression unlikely. 

Best part of 5 months still to go so nothing is nearly decided yet bar probably the top spot. Long, long way to go.

Rev, points are very valid, I have said many times previous that I think we will finish the strongest team in the league, to be honest I am wavering on this, we don't seam to be learning from our lessons, we seem to be basing our team around a single player who may well be distracted by a potential move elsewhere at this current time and IMHO believe McPake is underestimating the impact that his tactics and belief in that player is having on the rest of the squad.

The thread on Byrne is an example, he has not been giving the chance to get a run in the side despite his proven track record in his previous club.

There needs to be a change or 4th / 5th is a real possibility.

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2 hours ago, CW 90+3 02/05/16 said:

1st is gone.

2nd would be a credible finish but looks an uphill task after Saturday (Saturday was massive in the race for 2nd).

3rd would be disappointing and would leave us with an odds heavily against chance of going up through the playoffs.

4th where we currently sit would be very poor and our joint fourth worst season in our 127 year history as I was saying in my earlier post.

5th or below and your in the top 3 worst seasons in the club's history. The other three  seasons we finished as low, we were a financial mess though and not heavily backed from supportive owners.

IMHO

Amazing to think that Cowboy and Duffy were sacked when we were top while Bomber felt forced to quit as Dees were furious that we'd dropped from top spot to second.

At the start of January 2020 we find ourselves 20 points adrift of top spot and 7 points from the relegation places and yet the manager's position appears to be secure.

It's good I suppose that we are much more patient these days but some might say it's alarming that mediocrity has been become acceptable.

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19 minutes ago, Cobra said:

Amazing to think that Cowboy and Duffy were sacked when we were top while Bomber felt forced to quit as Dees were furious that we'd dropped from top spot to second.

At the start of January 2020 we find ourselves 20 points adrift of top spot and 7 points from the relegation places and yet the manager's position appears to be secure.

It's good I suppose that we are much more patient these days but some might say it's alarming that mediocrity has been become acceptable.

Exactly . Not just mediocrity but Championship mediocrity .

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9 minutes ago, Dondeh said:

Exactly . Not just mediocrity but Championship mediocrity .

And it could be about to get worst. We're conceding goals are a ridiculous rate at Dens so Ayr will look to take advantage of that. We've then got a horrible cup tie against high-flying Motherwell followed by a nightmare run of away games at East End Park, Cappielow and Palmerston, three grounds that have already caused us problems this season.

Big few weeks coming up for the Dee and the management team.

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7 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Find this hard to get my head around. We've been inconsistent but there have been some signs of improvement. The DAB game and result were a million miles from what we witnessed in the first two derbies. I don't think it's easy to build a perfect squad in 1 window, Robbie Neilson will have had at least 3 by the time they are promoted.

I'm pretty certain I said nothing about the squad, or even specified what my own expectations are. My point is that the attitude of last season where everyone including fans of other teams believed we were one good run away from staying up damaged the fans' psyche, as they couldn't get anything going past a couple of games. That feeling in many fans, myself included though I have tried to fight it, still lingers. Though signs of improvement are there, it's all to do with consistency, and we continue to lack in that area. Fan engagement will only improve once the team shows that consistency with a 6/7 game unbeaten run. That's why the ICT loss was so awful, as such an important opportunity was lost, the positive run abruptly ends, and the mood resets.

Nobody is claiming the squad is the problem, it's the consistency on the pitch that is. How a team goes from a battling performance against the league leaders and bitter rivals to a complete capitulation in arguably the most important game of the season up to this point is not going to give the fans confidence when they turn up, if they even do so.

I believe things will get better, but until we get consistent positive performances even in defeat, it is hard to be upbeat and confident going into the next game.

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4 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

The best team in the land, Celtic, score a lot of goals late on in games because they never give up. We're half way through our season, within touching distance of a very credible finish yet some have thrown the towel in and given up, with some even suggesting that relegation is on the cards. If we were in April and out of the play-off places then fair enough I'd get it but come on it's only 1 week into January FFS!.

The signs are that the players do not respect the manager.

They are producing sloppy, lazy, tired performances and getting away with it because we have nobody else to turn to.

In fact most of them are an insult to their profession and the people who pay their wages.

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16 minutes ago, Cobra said:

It's good I suppose that we are much more patient

Maybe the BOD are patient but certainly not the fans. I think the fans have some influence over managerial changes, certainly more than many believe anyway. I'm of the opinion that if first was never a real possibility and the play-offs were then we're as well sticking with McPake seeing as that's where we're heading under his management. It'll probably be a rocky ride but we've done enough to suggest that we'll just about get there imo. Utd being so far ahead is unusual for this league (most seasons) and I think that's what's upsetting people. Take them out of the equation and we're doing alright.

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