Conspiracy Theories

[andrak]

Interesting things are slowly coming out about the provenance of this virus.

While the wet market still seems like the choice of the vast majority of scientists and amateur virologists, it does seem that there are also plausible reasons to suspect that some of the jiggery pockery that was going on at the Wuhan Virology Institute might also be a contender.

The key phrase that you might be hearing in the next few months is 'Gain of function'. Thats where scientists, and I could hardly believe this myself, actually try to alter viruses to make them more transmissable, more deadly, or more difficult to kill etc etc.

There is evidence that many prominent US scientists were involved in doing this at Wuhan in recent months and years. Some of the same scientists who are rushing out papers trying to convince everyone that the virus is entirely natural and likely came to humans from a bat via a pangolin that either bit or was eaten by someone who had gone to the Wuhan wet market.

I have seen several wet, and bushmeat markets in Asia and Africa and they are horrendous places. You really feel that anything could come out of those sesspits of misery and cruelty. But, that scientists have been doing 'gain of function' research on visruses is common knowledge.

That US scientists were working with the Chinese scientists at Wuhan on projects that included 'gain of function' elements on bat corona viruses is also common knowledge.

That it is possible to fill in the missing bits of the Bat and or Pangolin RNA to make it more transmissable to humans and to combine different viruses to make a new one is also common knowledge.

That there have been several leaks of deadly viruses from British, Chinese and American labs in recent years is well known. (see this, https://www.the-scientist.com/news-analysis/sars-escaped-beijing-lab-twice-50137 this, https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/3/20/18260669/deadly-pathogens-escape-lab-smallpox-bird-flu and this with an adorable picture of a pangolin  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/coronavirus-spreads-leads-theories-origin-200407073509327.html 

It is possible that this is all just daft conjecture adding 2 and 2 and getting 5. It is also possible that there are enough vested interests, not least the Chinese Communist party that will do everything they can to make sure that the links do not gain credence.

I think, this time, maybe the consipracy theorists might actually be on to something. Even if we never find out for sure, it will still be a result if this of gain of function research is abolished, just in case.

[WoodStein]

5 hours ago, andrak said:

Interesting things are slowly coming out about the provenance of this virus.

......

It is possible that this is all just daft conjecture adding 2 and 2 and getting 5. It is also possible that there are enough vested interests, not least the Chinese Communist party that will do everything they can to make sure that the links do not gain credence.

I think, this time, maybe the consipracy theorists might actually be on to something. Even if we never find out for sure, it will still be a result if this of gain of function research is abolished, just in case.

Very interesting articles, and human error (as well as stupidity) is never far away from the potential causes. 

I realise the need for all sorts of testing labs to exist, both for medical development and (unfortunately) political/military reasons, but one bit always puzzles me.....why, in any country so vast, do the authorities continue to place these labs on the doorstep of (or in Wuhan's case, inside the door of) cities with massive & fairly packed-together populations? Surely out in the middle of some unpopulated desert, or better still, inside a dirty great mountain, would be more sensible. It's not as if the costs would be insurmountable to the relevant governments. The staff could do 'offshore cycle' style shifts. 

I still won't lose any sleep though.....que sera, etc.

[andrak]

25 minutes ago, WoodStein said:

Very interesting articles, and human error (as well as stupidity) is never far away from the potential causes. 

I realise the need for all sorts of testing labs to exist, both for medical development and (unfortunately) political/military reasons, but one bit always puzzles me.....why, in any country so vast, do the authorities continue to place these labs on the doorstep of (or in Wuhan's case, inside the door of) cities with massive & fairly packed-together populations? Surely out in the middle of some unpopulated desert, or better still, inside a dirty great mountain, would be more sensible. It's not as if the costs would be insurmountable to the relevant governments. The staff could do 'offshore cycle' style shifts. 

I still won't lose any sleep though.....que sera, etc.

The poor lady who was killed by the smallpox virus that had leaked froma lab along the corridor from her university classroom is the one that scared me most. I know it was a long time ago and that accident caused the rules to be changed, but it seems that rules only get tightened when the actual practice proves too dangerous (even though the risk was clear and obvious all along). It's a wee bit like Scottish football. The whole shitshow will have to be completely brought to it's knees by the liquidation of several clubs before anything will be done to try remove the risky bits (like 11:1 voting and home gates kept).

The location of the labs is an obvious point. Deserts, oceans, and mountains could all provide safer homes for these activities. Although, I would still question whether it is sensible to play with viruses to see how dangerous they can be made to humans even if every now and again it helps in the discovery of a vaccine or treatment.

[WoodStein]

12 hours ago, andrak said:

Although, I would still question whether it is sensible to play with viruses to see how dangerous they can be made to humans even if every now and again it helps in the discovery of a vaccine or treatment.

I absolutely agree with you on this....and wonder if this work is really looking for potential vaccines, or if it's subsidised for military purposes. Either way, it seems to be something better left well alone. 

[TheDarkBlues]

2 hours ago, WoodStein said:

I absolutely agree with you on this....and wonder if this work is really looking for potential vaccines, or if it's subsidised for military purposes. Either way, it seems to be something better left well alone. 

There are many scientists who have already came out and put this theory to bed. Corona was a natural mutation which was introduced into the food supply, that is all.

There are makers which are clearly defined when virus and bacteria is man made or man altered.

Unfortunately, normally most new inventions are for the military, then which cycle down to the general public. Sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the bad. For example, the Internet was developed and financed by ARPANET.

[chomp my root]

18 hours ago, TheDarkBlues said:

There are many scientists who have already came out and put this theory to bed. Corona was a natural mutation which was introduced into the food supply, that is all.

There are makers which are clearly defined when virus and bacteria is man made or man altered.

Unfortunately, normally most new inventions are for the military, then which cycle down to the general public. Sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the bad. For example, the Internet was developed and financed by ARPANET.

GPS was for the US (and Allied) Forces, most specifically for cruise missiles to get fixings. Superglue was first used as for sealing wounds too.

[andrak]

19 hours ago, TheDarkBlues said:

There are many scientists who have already came out and put this theory to bed. Corona was a natural mutation which was introduced into the food supply, that is all.

There are makers which are clearly defined when virus and bacteria is man made or man altered.

Unfortunately, normally most new inventions are for the military, then which cycle down to the general public. Sometimes for the good, and sometimes for the bad. For example, the Internet was developed and financed by ARPANET.

I'm pretty sure you are right. I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to even understand the science behind viruses or how they obtain markers when manually modified, let alone try to defend a scientific point of view on the matter.

I would think that there needs to be there to be a broader discussion about gain of function work being done around the world though. I am also very skeptical of the information released by China on the virus and on the work of that lab. I guess the thing that bursts my plooks about this the most is the verifiable involvement of American, European, and Australian scientists working alongside Chinese Military funded research including at Wuhan. I have some experience of living under authoritarian dictatorships, communist and otherwise, and have always been astonished at the things they get up to. The conspiracy theories about China are probably much too tame compared to the reality.

Of course, it is just as likely that this is all a handy diversion from dealing with the fact that there is no football to talk about. (although, come on Munchengladbach).

[chomp my root]

8 minutes ago, andrak said:

I'm pretty sure you are right. I am nowhere near knowledgeable enough to even understand the science behind viruses or how they obtain markers when manually modified, let alone try to defend a scientific point of view on the matter.

I would think that there needs to be there to be a broader discussion about gain of function work being done around the world though. I am also very skeptical of the information released by China on the virus and on the work of that lab. I guess the thing that bursts my plooks about this the most is the verifiable involvement of American, European, and Australian scientists working alongside Chinese Military funded research including at Wuhan. I have some experience of living under authoritarian dictatorships, communist and otherwise, and have always been astonished at the things they get up to. The conspiracy theories about China are probably much too tame compared to the reality.

Of course, it is just as likely that this is all a handy diversion from dealing with the fact that there is no football to talk about. (although, come on Munchengladbach).

As long as we have separate nations we're not really going to be working as a planet, we'll all be doing our own thing and watching out for 'them'. 

[andrak]

1 minute ago, chomp my root said:

As long as we have separate nations we're not really going to be working as a planet, we'll all be doing our own thing and watching out for 'them'. 

It's when them turns out to be us that we need to worry about...

[chomp my root]

Just now, andrak said:

It's when them turns out to be us that we need to worry about...

We'll be somebody's 'them'. 

[Cobra]

New poll finds that 1 in 8 Australians blame Bill Gates and 5G for coronavirus. Only 3m Aussies know what's REALLY going on!