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Strachan Bbc Interview

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2 hours ago, Irene Marot said:

I have never liked Strachan. He is full of self importance. The club should issue a statement distancing themselves from his comments yesterday. There are some great posts above, especially the point about Greg Stewart, arguably our best player since the foreign influx. 

As Harry says, these clubs take a small piece of the pie and run sustainably. They aren't to blame for Falkirk, Raith, Dunfermline not being able to manage themselves.

Absolute nonsense. You don't agree so the club should make a statement? Ridiculous comment. 

Strachan was absolutely spot on IMO. The game in Scotland is heading down the pan unless something is done. We should be listening to guys like Strachan who have operated at the top levels in the game. 

He made some very relevant points, not least about the product being atrocious with nonsense like plastic pitches allowed in the top league. With so much other football available on tv now we need to something to make the product more appealing to a new generation. 

The lower league clubs are effectively amateur/junior clubs now, very important to people in the local community etc., nobody is suggesting otherwise and that won't change. But the fact is they are operating in a completely different demographic, very basic full time players wages now are at a level where we need to adapt in the top leagues in order to cope. 

The romanticism and revisionism is all well and good on fans forums, but it's simple economics for people who actually have to try and run full time clubs. This current situation has changed things, hopefully for the better long term. 4 leagues in Scotland is no longer feasible, we will see things changing soon I think and some grown up thinking us required. I still retain some degree of hope that Nelms sees the bigger picture here. 

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I like a lot of what he says. Basically too many wee clubs playing at being professional. I personally would like two leagues of sixteen. No splits and bu**er the 4 x OF games a season. Proper futba.

I look at a club like East Fife and have spoken to a couple of their directors.  They are a community based club, prefer grass but artificial pitch gets used 7 days a week by the community, friendly e

If GS is basically saying the Scottish game is f#cked, then he is absolutely right. National team not qualified for a major tournament this century, 1998 if I mind right. Not even close. 

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If GS is basically saying the Scottish game is f#cked, then he is absolutely right.

  • National team not qualified for a major tournament this century, 1998 if I mind right. Not even close. 
  • Teams qualifying for Europe out in the first or early rounds.
  • Champions of SPFL not qualifying for later stages of Champions League and then embarrassing themselves in the Europa Cup.
  • Only one of 2 teams can win the top league.
  • Self serving,  selfish and self preservation of clubs, particularly Chairmen now the common thread.
  • Teams who do get a good team together with some decent players, plundered by the a**e cheeks then back to square one.
  • Same plundering teams then complain of 'lack of decent competition ' hence bad record in Europe. 
  • Teams in lower leagues, although doing great work locally and in the Community then are merely 'feeder clubs' or a back water for grizzled ex top players.

Apart from that, it's sunny outside...for a change. 😊

 

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I fully agree with Strachan and in his statement he never said that any club should be allowed to go to the wall. All he said is that clubs have to find their own level. He is spot on about the product for if the product is right it will mean more sponsorship. He is after all only speaking truth that we all agree with. I remember East Fife when they were a great club and had a great Cup pedigree. No club wanted to be drawn against them in the Scottish Cup because they were renowned Cup fighters, but they were in the First Division at the time. What has happened to them since then, I do not know. Strachan is speaking a lot of common sense. Something has to be done to reward clubs with ambition with the product being improved through better competition. The way things are structured at the moment it is killing our game. The international team have suffered along with our European co-efficient. We find even Aberdeen being content to known as the third force in Scottish football. They have won one trophy in 7 years under their present manager. Can you imagine Dick Donald and Alex Ferguson being content with that? No way. You have St. Johnstone content with being in the top six each year. Do you get a trophy for being 3rd or 6th? And at the end if the day who will remember teams who occupied these positions? The present structure is killing the ambition of some of our strongest clubs.

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8 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Colour me cynical about the SFA Harry, 'Operation Brave' was their brainchild and while it might have benefited the national game it did nothing for clubs that weren't really part of the top 8 clubs who were going to be 'league 1 academies', the 'league 2' ones were a bit 'meh' and everyone else was out in the cold. 

I agree that a long term approach is required but if its not from the clubs I'm not sure who else could do it, basically its all a bit of a clusterphuq and I can't see it changing. Sorry for the negative Chi dude. 

True, I think the SFA probably needs a bit of a reorganisation too.

The original plan was 8 independent academies. The idea being everyone would have access to good coaching and facilities rather than just taking a bit of grant money, sending a volunteer and then culling everything at u17. We'd have a main 8 and then satellite academies off that which would cover roughly equal parts of the population (with a bit of geographic consideration).

Honestly, in my mind that's a brilliant idea. I've seen a lot of stupid sh*t on the lower fringes of the set-up including moronic 'qualified' coaches who at best are maybe good intention volunteers and at worse pricks who are stealing employment and on a power trip. Obviously it hasn't worked out for him in first-team management but you do see people like Ian Cathro who are on a different planet in what they do and I'm sure there are others out there like him (who don't have any rep in the game) who would thrive if we had a more professional national and regional set-up that actually scouted for these people.

It's all went down with kicking and screaming because when the clubs got involved, they couldn't stomach so what we got instead was a bunch of pissy compromises where some components of the plan were kept but now totally insignificant (i.e. the arbitrary definition of 8 wasn't envisioned to divide up existing clubs). At least it's been a boost to certification standards and the Fife clubs got a bit of assistance in their regional academy if nothing else I suppose but that didn't require such a big fuss.

There is a bit of an opportunity though because the membership of the SFA is a bit different and it's not something which clubs could break away from at the top, not without ending up in court for a decade. I think there has maybe been an, understandable, attitude from some of the lesser shareholders to maybe let the bigger SPFL contingent get on with what they are doing as they perhaps don't feel they have the time/expertise to weigh into this stuff as much but in theory, they could actually be quite powerful. There's a far bigger stick there than is maybe realised and I think there's something wrong if time and money is spent on thoroughly researching a proposal like above and then see it quickly change form in that way.

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I'd be all for regional academies that were either non-club or clubs coexisted sharing the same facilities and letting the kids train with the national coaches or whatever. That wasn't how it was ending up though, it came down to clubs and their facilities. If you were one of the 8 clubs 'selected' then you were in and part of the set up, most likely getting the cream of the crop of kids coming through. There was no 'promotion' from the second tier if a club did what Partick had managed with their training facilities and for the rest, nothing. It didn't exactly scream concern for club football. 

While I largely agree with the principle of having these bigger top leagues with all the razzamatazz, there needs to be a structure for these smaller community clubs to climb if they're ambitious, and its not all about the national team, personally, I prefer club football to national now, I accept that there maybe an element of long term disappointment involved but also the regularity of games. I'd rather watch 'crapper' football week in/week out than even a great Scottish team a handful of times a year.

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Having listened to the full podcast GS does make fair points and frames the argument quite well.  However, it's quite easy to outline the problem definition but his comments lacked insight as to what actionable steps need to be taken to move forward.  What I did agree with is that the top flight needs the OF, hibs hearts Aberdeen and the two Dundee clubs as a base for an interesting product.  It does not need empty stands, plastic pitches, 3 sided stadiums etc etc.  It also needs more commercial approach to developing the product and high standards in the club set up to get into the top two leagues

What he didn't suggest was how to address the self interested selfishness of clubs and the lack of ambition with the third rate administrators who run the game to enable us to move forward.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Iain T Campbell said:

I remember East Fife when they were a great club and had a great Cup pedigree. No club wanted to be drawn against them in the Scottish Cup because they were renowned Cup fighters, but they were in the First Division at the time. What has happened to them since then, I do not know. 

What happened to East Fife was, effectively, "Methil No More"....post-war they had great crowds, then the decline of local industries, huge unemployment, people leaving the area.

Sadly the root of much of the issues with industrial town clubs, though they, along with Thirds & Clyde (clearing old housing out to 'new towns'), suffered more than most, it seems.

[ps....generally agree with your view on Strachan's comments too]  

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10 hours ago, troodee1893 said:

Was the picture in the article a new one taken at the time the comments were made or simply a stock photo from a time ago? If it was the former and Strachan did not disassociate his comments from the club then he could be said to talk at least in part for DFC. If it was the latter it can be looked at as his own personal opinion. If I ramble on about something and expressed a controversial view and a photo was shown of me on the golf course, bowling green or at my old workplace it wouldn't be looked at as representing any of their views. I therefore give him the benefit of the doubt that he is expressing personal views only and don't associate the club with them.

The guy has a current position at Dundee FC and as such, whether we or he likes it or not, when he makes comments, we are included in it. He is not in a position (as we are) to simply speak his mind, unless he specifically says they are his ideas and not his 'employers' (not sure if he's technically employed but he is part of the set up).

Considering Nelms was meant to have been acting in the 'greater good' of the Scottish game recently, that his club's technical director or director of football (or whatever his title is) is now basically dismissing a third of the teams in the professional set up doesn't strike me as very joined up thinking.

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3 hours ago, surreydee said:

Having listened to the full podcast GS does make fair points and frames the argument quite well.  However, it's quite easy to outline the problem definition but his comments lacked insight as to what actionable steps need to be taken to move forward.  What I did agree with is that the top flight needs the OF, hibs hearts Aberdeen and the two Dundee clubs as a base for an interesting product.  It does not need empty stands, plastic pitches, 3 sided stadiums etc etc.  It also needs more commercial approach to developing the product and high standards in the club set up to get into the top two leagues

What he didn't suggest was how to address the self interested selfishness of clubs and the lack of ambition with the third rate administrators who run the game to enable us to move forward.

 

 

This is the thing for me. Strachan's comments aren't so much outlandish as they are merely a guy making statements with no suggestions as to how we move the game forward.

I'll never forget Murdo McLeod years ago spouting stuff on the radio about ex-pro's getting involved in grass roots football and passing on their knowledge at that level. Training with kids and passing on good habits and setting up their own training sessions to improve the standards coming through. Whoever the guy was sitting in the same studio/ground (whatever) asked him if he did any of this stuff and his answer was... 'well, no, but I'm busy...'

Strachan wasn't complaining about Celtic's stranglehold on the game when he was building his CV around winning trophies at, well, Celtic. He should have been lobbying at that stage to spread the wealth and improving competition. 

It's easy to say stuff like clubs shouldn't have plastic pitches, but how do they replace the revenue that being able to hire them out gives them? Where do they get the money to install undersoil heating and the costs associated with running that system? Where do Hamilton magic the cash to build stands that will only get filled when the OF come to town?

It's also easy to suggest that clubs will find their level, but isn't that always the case anyway? The clubs (with maybe the exception of Falkirk) in the bottom two divisions are pretty much 'at their level'. Whereas it isn't Hamilton or Livi's fault that they have been better run than us, Dunfermline, Falkirk, Raith - and at times Hearts, Hibs and Rangers. These clubs are in the division they've earned the right to be in.

In my lifetime St Johnstone, Dunfermline, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle and, obviously, ICT and Ross County have all been in the bottom division in this country and some (maybe most) have been forced part time. Should they all have been forced into being 'non-league'? 

What we need is solid suggestions and practical plans for action to improve the game and heighten the competition (not that any league in Europe really has that now, the Champion's League put paid to that) not just sweeping statements with very little substance.

This comes from a guy who has consistently said for years that the game here is utterly broken, so I don't fundamentally disagree with everything Strachan is saying but with his experience and insight you'd hope he'd be able to offer more than telling everyone else what's wrong with their club.

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6 minutes ago, barkblue said:

This is the thing for me. Strachan's comments aren't so much outlandish as they are merely a guy making statements with no suggestions as to how we move the game forward.

I'll never forget Murdo McLeod years ago spouting stuff on the radio about ex-pro's getting involved in grass roots football and passing on their knowledge at that level. Training with kids and passing on good habits and setting up their own training sessions to improve the standards coming through. Whoever the guy was sitting in the same studio/ground (whatever) asked him if he did any of this stuff and his answer was... 'well, no, but I'm busy...'

Strachan wasn't complaining about Celtic's stranglehold on the game when he was building his CV around winning trophies at, well, Celtic. He should have been lobbying at that stage to spread the wealth and improving competition. 

It's easy to say stuff like clubs shouldn't have plastic pitches, but how do they replace the revenue that being able to hire them out gives them? Where do they get the money to install undersoil heating and the costs associated with running that system? Where do Hamilton magic the cash to build stands that will only get filled when the OF come to town?

It's also easy to suggest that clubs will find their level, but isn't that always the case anyway? The clubs (with maybe the exception of Falkirk) in the bottom two divisions are pretty much 'at their level'. Whereas it isn't Hamilton or Livi's fault that they have been better run than us, Dunfermline, Falkirk, Raith - and at times Hearts, Hibs and Rangers. These clubs are in the division they've earned the right to be in.

In my lifetime St Johnstone, Dunfermline, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle and, obviously, ICT and Ross County have all been in the bottom division in this country and some (maybe most) have been forced part time. Should they all have been forced into being 'non-league'? 

What we need is solid suggestions and practical plans for action to improve the game and heighten the competition (not that any league in Europe really has that now, the Champion's League put paid to that) not just sweeping statements with very little substance.

This comes from a guy who has consistently said for years that the game here is utterly broken, so I don't fundamentally disagree with everything Strachan is saying but with his experience and insight you'd hope he'd be able to offer more than telling everyone else what's wrong with their club.

Great post, can't argue with much of that although I do see it slightly differently. 

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15 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Great post, can't argue with much of that although I do see it slightly differently. 

Cheers mate. I'm painfully aware that I feel like I'm explaining myself very badly on this thread - nothing new there then! :dunce:

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14 minutes ago, barkblue said:

Cheers mate. I'm painfully aware that I feel like I'm explaining myself very badly on this thread - nothing new there then! :dunce:

We can all be guilty of it, you have an idea in your head and try and put it down reasonably briefly and you read it back and realise you've sort of skipped chunks of what you were trying to say or it wasn't what you quite meant. 

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He makes some good points,but it reeks of arrogance. Guessing it's not the clubs views,a club that has been in admin twice and up and down like a yo yo. We are not exactly a model club.

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1 hour ago, barkblue said:

Cheers mate. I'm painfully aware that I feel like I'm explaining myself very badly on this thread - nothing new there then! :dunce:

Maybe Strachan has the same problem lol!

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GS is simply saying that our standard of football is way below that in England. I have been impressed by the quality of play in the Conference League which I witnessed some years ago. We really are second rate and it hurts to admit the truth. The entertainment level is at an all time low, and we have to address falling attendances. The Old Firm have a stranglehold in Scotland which dampens the ambition of other clubs. I really do fear for the future of our game, and if Gordon Strachan's comments are listened to then some good may result from it. 

 

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