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English clubs in division 1 and 2  have voted to end the season and decide placings on a points per game average.

Promotion and relegation in place AND play offs  also honoured and will take place on dates TBC.  League 2 have already decided dates in late June  league 1 still to confirm.

So, what was to stop our powers that be doing the same thing?

 

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I think can say with confidence there was no struggle. While the issues of Celtic being handed the title and Hearts being relegated were fiercely debated behind closed doors, on Whatapp, in the p

That comment was maybe a bit harsh as I didn't mean to suggest our board don't care. We just seem to have taken it on the chin and moved on while for Peterborough it's the end of the world. Can't

I still think that John Nelms was mugged.

Gardiner was more interested in his Old Firm agenda than pushing his own club's play-off chances. Nelms was focused on reconstruction. With the two biggest clubs in play-off spots not making the play-offs part of the conversation, the powers-that-be happily binned them.

The SPFL just wanted to shut everyone up. There's no need to throw a dog a bone if the dog isn't barking.

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1 hour ago, thegen65 said:

English clubs in division 1 and 2  have voted to end the season and decide placings on a points per game average.

Promotion and relegation in place AND play offs  also honoured and will take place on dates TBC.  League 2 have already decided dates in late June  league 1 still to confirm.

So, what was to stop our powers that be doing the same 

Sadly, the haste with which Scottish League football ended was heavily influenced by linking that vote to end of season cash payouts which many clubs were desperate to bank.

Unfortunately, without any great evidence of a struggle, the play-off ship appears to have sailed.🙁 

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31 minutes ago, Barfly said:

Sadly, the haste with which Scottish League football ended was heavily influenced by linking that vote to end of season cash payouts which many clubs were desperate to bank.

Unfortunately, without any great evidence of a struggle,, the play-off ship appears to have sailed.🙁 

I think can say with confidence there was no struggle.

While the issues of Celtic being handed the title and Hearts being relegated were fiercely debated behind closed doors, on Whatapp, in the papers and in broadcasting studios, according to ICT the play-offs were "barely ever mentioned" and so Scotland become the only country on the planet to end the season early, promote one team and needlessly scrap the play-offs.

Inverness, Ayr and Dundee played a combined 73 games in a bid to get promotion but voted against playing a handful of play-off games behind closed doors to claim the promotion play-off final place the rules entitle them to.

There's a reason nobody in England suggested scrapping the play-offs. It's f**cking ridiculous.

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3 hours ago, Cobra said:

I think can say with confidence there was no struggle.

While the issues of Celtic being handed the title and Hearts being relegated were fiercely debated behind closed doors, on Whatapp, in the papers and in broadcasting studios, according to ICT the play-offs were "barely ever mentioned" and so Scotland become the only country on the planet to end the season early, promote one team and needlessly scrap the play-offs.

Inverness, Ayr and Dundee played a combined 73 games in a bid to get promotion but voted against playing a handful of play-off games behind closed doors to claim the promotion play-off final place the rules entitle them to.

There's a reason nobody in England suggested scrapping the play-offs. It's f**cking ridiculous.

Celtic get their 9 in a row while Rangers/The Rangers/Sevco/The Tribute Act are kept in their place, nothing else matters to the media because that is what Scottish football is all about

We have Nelms changing his vote and giving up our play off place "for the good of Scottish football and helping keep clubs alive" at the same time Strachan is telling us that the same clubs don't deserve to be classed as professional 

Is it any wonder the English call Scottish football a pub league

 

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13 hours ago, thegen65 said:

So, what was to stop our powers that be doing the same thing?

 

The infamous vote is the answer - the clubs decided to go down that route when given the choice.  

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The play-offs are going ahead in England but of course some teams narrowly missed out and they are naturally devastated. Here's what Barry Fry said after Peterborough failed to make the play-offs...

“I’ve been in the game 60 years – at Peterborough for nearly 25 – and I’ve got the greatest respect for our game, from non-league all the way through, but this is the worst day of my life because I think we’ve been cheated out of a place in the play-offs. I feel sorry for [the co-owner] Darragh [MacAnthony] and [manager] Darren Ferguson, who has built a squad and had a team challenging for promotion. It’s a disgrace.”

I think it's safe to say that the people at Dens don't feel quite a strongly about promotion as the people at Peterborough.

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8 minutes ago, Cobra said:

The play-offs are going ahead in England but of course some teams narrowly missed out and they are naturally devastated. Here's what Barry Fry said after Peterborough failed to make the play-offs...

“I’ve been in the game 60 years – at Peterborough for nearly 25 – and I’ve got the greatest respect for our game, from non-league all the way through, but this is the worst day of my life because I think we’ve been cheated out of a place in the play-offs. I feel sorry for [the co-owner] Darragh [MacAnthony] and [manager] Darren Ferguson, who has built a squad and had a team challenging for promotion. It’s a disgrace.”

I think it's safe to say that the people at Dens don't feel quite a strongly about promotion as the people at Peterborough.

Maybe a bit unfair Cobra. At the start of lockdown it was clear that there was going to be some who benefited from the shortened season and some who didn’t. A line had to be drawn somewhere. If play-offs were to go ahead then Arbroath etc would then have a case that there was still enough games for them to finish second. With benefit of hindsight, the SPFL probably could/should have arranged play-offs to be arranged behind closed doors, but at the time of voting the priority was clubs’ survival. However, I think bringing back players to competitive games after a long lay-off coupled with the risk of infection/cost of testing etc is a pretty pointless activity. If league titles and relegations can be handed out without matches being played then there is no reason playoffs should be seen as a need for being played. Effectively all the second bottom sides have been handed a virtual Play Off final win in the same way as Celtic, Dabs, Falkirk and Cove were handed a virtual title. My only complaint is our missed opportunity of finishing second and looking forward to the prospect of a back door promotion due to reconstruction like ICT, but we are not because of a poor first half of the season, not because of any crap voting system. Maybe we should just accept that we didn’t really deserve to be anywhere other than where we are. 

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30 minutes ago, Cobra said:

The play-offs are going ahead in England but of course some teams narrowly missed out and they are naturally devastated. Here's what Barry Fry said after Peterborough failed to make the play-offs...

“I’ve been in the game 60 years – at Peterborough for nearly 25 – and I’ve got the greatest respect for our game, from non-league all the way through, but this is the worst day of my life because I think we’ve been cheated out of a place in the play-offs. I feel sorry for [the co-owner] Darragh [MacAnthony] and [manager] Darren Ferguson, who has built a squad and had a team challenging for promotion. It’s a disgrace.”

I think it's safe to say that the people at Dens don't feel quite a strongly about promotion as the people at Peterborough.

That one was bonkers! Peterborough have been bumped down to 7th, having been in the play-off places and just 3pts off automatic promotion with around 10 games remaining. Wycombe on the other hand jumped from 8th to 3rd due to having a game in hand. 

Now I get the average points thing, but surely that's just like assuming they'll win the game in hand? No wonder Peterborough and other clubs down there are fuming.

It hasn't been so controversial up here, no clubs dropping down and jumping up several places, but at the very least clubs in the Championship such as ourselves, ICT and Ayr should've been making noises about the play-off issue from the get-go.

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21 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

That one was bonkers! Peterborough have been bumped down to 7th, having been in the play-off places and just 3pts off automatic promotion with around 10 games remaining. Wycombe on the other hand jumped from 8th to 3rd due to having a game in hand. 

Now I get the average points thing, but surely that's just like assuming they'll win the game in hand? No wonder Peterborough and other clubs down there are fuming.

It hasn't been so controversial up here, no clubs dropping down and jumping up several places, but at the very least clubs in the Championship such as ourselves, ICT and Ayr should've been making noises about the play-off issue from the get-go.

I think the dissolution of the play-offs to the Premiership is technically a top-flight voting issue and isn't actually covered by Championship sides, not 100% but looks like it's handled that way according to the rules. Always had the impression that was the effective default anyway and their cancellation wasn't actually anything we had direct leverage over in terms of voting.

It's a bit easier in England when the promotion play-offs are just contested with teams from one division as the relegation from the league above will be set in stone.

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19 minutes ago, DFC1974 said:

Maybe a bit unfair Cobra. At the start of lockdown it was clear that there was going to be some who benefited from the shortened season and some who didn’t. A line had to be drawn somewhere. If play-offs were to go ahead then Arbroath etc would then have a case that there was still enough games for them to finish second. With benefit of hindsight, the SPFL probably could/should have arranged play-offs to be arranged behind closed doors, but at the time of voting the priority was clubs’ survival. However, I think bringing back players to competitive games after a long lay-off coupled with the risk of infection/cost of testing etc is a pretty pointless activity. If league titles and relegations can be handed out without matches being played then there is no reason playoffs should be seen as a need for being played. Effectively all the second bottom sides have been handed a virtual Play Off final win in the same way as Celtic, Dabs, Falkirk and Cove were handed a virtual title. My only complaint is our missed opportunity of finishing second and looking forward to the prospect of a back door promotion due to reconstruction like ICT, but we are not because of a poor first half of the season, not because of any crap voting system. Maybe we should just accept that we didn’t really deserve to be anywhere other than where we are. 

That comment was maybe a bit harsh as I didn't mean to suggest our board don't care. We just seem to have taken it on the chin and moved on while for Peterborough it's the end of the world.

Can't agree with your last line. We deserved a play-off place as much as the Livi team promoted through the play-offs a couple of years back. Football prizes aren't handed out to the most aesthetically pleasing competitors like say in gymnastics. Promotions don't get denied because a team had a bad spell. If you put enough points on the board to reach the play-off you deserve a play-off place. This odd attitude of "well the dabs were miles ahead so first place should count but Dundee had a mixed season so that third place finish isn't really merited" doesn't appear to exist in any other country.

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1 hour ago, Cobra said:

The play-offs are going ahead in England but of course some teams narrowly missed out and they are naturally devastated. Here's what Barry Fry said after Peterborough failed to make the play-offs...

“I’ve been in the game 60 years – at Peterborough for nearly 25 – and I’ve got the greatest respect for our game, from non-league all the way through, but this is the worst day of my life because I think we’ve been cheated out of a place in the play-offs. I feel sorry for [the co-owner] Darragh [MacAnthony] and [manager] Darren Ferguson, who has built a squad and had a team challenging for promotion. It’s a disgrace.”

I think it's safe to say that the people at Dens don't feel quite a strongly about promotion as the people at Peterborough.

Read Ricky Spanish post, to see it’s nothing like our situation. 

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24 minutes ago, bp33 said:

Read Ricky Spanish post, to see it’s nothing like our situation. 

Not identical circumstances but it's hardly nothing like our situation. Dundee and Peterborough are similar sized clubs and both found themselves pushing for promotion when the pandemic hit. Peterborough fought tooth and nail for a resolution that would give them a shot at going up. Dundee along with Inverness and Ayr meekly surrendered their promotion chances without pushing to have the play-offs held at a later date. Peterborough are devastated after the decision went against them. We immediately took it on the chin and accepted our lot.

Bottom line is we played nice and we all know where Hearts would be right now if they played nice. 

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1 hour ago, Cobra said:

Not identical circumstances but it's hardly nothing like our situation. Dundee and Peterborough are similar sized clubs and both found themselves pushing for promotion when the pandemic hit. Peterborough fought tooth and nail for a resolution that would give them a shot at going up. Dundee along with Inverness and Ayr meekly surrendered their promotion chances without pushing to have the play-offs held at a later date. Peterborough are devastated after the decision went against them. We immediately took it on the chin and accepted our lot.

Bottom line is we played nice and we all know where Hearts would be right now if they played nice. 

The bottom line is that as fans we won't know how hard we pushed for the play offs or how quickly we were told they weren't going to happen as the SPL just didn't fancy it. Its one of those things that just isn't worth getting worked up over, it is what it is.

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8 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

The bottom line is that as fans we won't know how hard we pushed for the play offs or how quickly we were told they weren't going to happen as the SPL just didn't fancy it. Its one of those things that just isn't worth getting worked up over, it is what it is.

Inverness have told us the play-offs weren't discussed. The vote was rushed through with all the focus on clubs needing handouts.

I agree it's not worth getting heated about but what a mistake we've made here. These play-offs would have been a massive occasion after the longest break in Scottish football since WWII. There would be a huge buzz around the club with the media all over it. 

The annoying thing is the SPFL would never have considered binning the play-offs if Rangers were sitting second or third but because it's Dundee they're happy to scrap them. For me we've shown a small club mentality in accepting that document as it was presented to us, and in the dog-eat-dog environment that is Scottish football you're going to get trampled on unless you make some noise.

I don't know if and when DFC will be involved in such discussions again but next time it would be great if we acted solely in the interests of our club. Start worrying about everyone else and you'll end up with nothing.

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