John Nelms . Again

[chomp my root]

1 minute ago, Cobra said:

It's almost like different people have different opinions.

Nobody would have criticised Nelms if he'd stuck to his original choice in the SPFL vote debacle. I don't think a single Dee was in favour of a U-turn.

As for the most recent vote Dees were split so yes he would have been questioned either way. Not that it matters as the vote was never in the balance.

I'm sure some would have worked an angle where JN was the antichrist.

[Alexis]

10 minutes ago, HK Blues said:

Yep.  I suppose it will come down to how much clubs need the cash and thus are willing to take less than they would like.  I get the feeling Utd won't come into that category and will hold on to Shankland if the offers are low.  At this time I'd imagine around 1m for Shankland would be a very good offer. 

I think Hibs are a better barometer here. They've  probably got double the Season Tickets than united quite easily, but they see what's coming, probably because Rod Petrie is President of the SFA. 

This is no time for profligacy, united are no different to any other club, but I approve wholeheartedly of their reckless spending

[HK Blues]

1 minute ago, Alexis said:

I think Hibs are a better barometer here. They've  probably got double the Season Tickets than united quite easily, but they see what's coming, probably because Rod Petrie is President of the SFA. 

This is no time for profligacy, united are no different to any other club, but I approve wholeheartedly of their reckless spending

I just wish they were spending even more even faster!  

[Cobra]

5 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

I'm sure some would have worked an angle where JN was the antichrist.

Nobody on here backed a U-turn. For once we were in complete agreement if I remember correctly.

In fact even though Nelms went against the fans, some on here gave him their full backing suggesting he had played a blinder in forcing reconstruction so it's almost like he'll get support regardless of what he does from some folk.

[chomp my root]

3 minutes ago, Cobra said:

Nobody on here backed a U-turn. For once we were in complete agreement if I remember correctly.

In fact even though Nelms went against the fans, some on here gave him their full backing suggesting he had played a blinder in forcing reconstruction so it's almost like he'll get support regardless of what he does from some folk.

I seem to mind we were all pretty much of an accord that we should vote NO but then there was the curve ball of the spam filter/early announcement which basically changed the 'rules of engagement'. We (well the club) had nothing to lose by hitting the pause button. We'll never know the details of what went on but some seem to think that JN had cryptonite in his pocket, he didn't, if he voted NO then the SPFL would have just tweaked the offer and put it back to the clubs until enough were pissed off and took it. 

I can't speak for anyone else but I was in 'team JN' more because of the stuff getting thrown at him based on opinion rather than fact, even now we don't know what happened (and continues behind the scenes) but some (including yourself) seem determined that JN has somehow made a hash of things. He might have, he might not, its not like we'll find out though is it. You seem dead set that we should have at least played out the play off games (which might have angered the chasing pack but that's by the by). At the time we had no idea what was happening with regard to covid or that there would be generous benefactors willing to toss a few million into the pot. The clubs were happy to hibernate rather than risk it all. Different leagues around the world have dealt with things in their own way, we're no different, you could argue that there are too many 'wee' Senior teams in Scotland but that's a different debate, it is what it is and most of them were happy to shut up shop and weather the corona storm than see out the season. 

I still don't get why even now, some are desperate to blame JN for this. He was just the sorry mope that was hung out to dry by the SPFL. If you're looking for a guy for the bonfire I'd start there.

[Gedee]

14 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

I'm sure some would have worked an angle where JN was the antichrist.

You think, I should eh be Doubling-Up on my Tomato Watch again Chomp?

At least in John Nelm's case, we ken he'll no have a "Supporting Following"

After our experience with John no sure whit's worse, Look into my eyes kind

Or thon Smiley Shifty-Swirling-Eyes-Kind that are fairt to look straight at ye

[offshoredee]

6 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

I seem to mind we were all pretty much of an accord that we should vote NO but then there was the curve ball of the spam filter/early announcement which basically changed the 'rules of engagement'. We (well the club) had nothing to lose by hitting the pause button. We'll never know the details of what went on but some seem to think that JN had cryptonite in his pocket, he didn't, if he voted NO then the SPFL would have just tweaked the offer and put it back to the clubs until enough were pissed off and took it. 

I can't speak for anyone else but I was in 'team JN' more because of the stuff getting thrown at him based on opinion rather than fact, even now we don't know what happened (and continues behind the scenes) but some (including yourself) seem determined that JN has somehow made a hash of things. He might have, he might not, its not like we'll find out though is it. You seem dead set that we should have at least played out the play off games (which might have angered the chasing pack but that's by the by). At the time we had no idea what was happening with regard to covid or that there would be generous benefactors willing to toss a few million into the pot. The clubs were happy to hibernate rather than risk it all. Different leagues around the world have dealt with things in their own way, we're no different, you could argue that there are too many 'wee' Senior teams in Scotland but that's a different debate, it is what it is and most of them were happy to shut up shop and weather the corona storm than see out the season. 

I still don't get why even now, some are desperate to blame JN for this. He was just the sorry mope that was hung out to dry by the SPFL. If you're looking for a guy for the bonfire I'd start there.

Going to be careful how I am seen to respond to this....

 

But that's how I see it, we don't know how things have went with regards to our vote, we (JN) may have played a blinder, may nave made a mess of it or may have used whatever leverage the owners of a club our size has to try and get the best deal...…...

 

[chomp my root]

2 minutes ago, Gedee said:

You think, I should eh be Doubling-Up on my Tomato Watch again Chomp?

At least in John Nelm's case, we ken he'll no have a "Supporting Following"

After our experience with John no sure whit's worse, Look into my eyes kind

Or thon Smiley Shifty-Swirling-Eyes-Kind that are fairt to look straight at ye

Definitely keep an eye on the crop, in the way of films everywhere, when they start doing sequels, they have to 'go bigger', Tomato Thief II will have a much bigger baddy than the original and...... the stakes will be higher. 

[harry94]

28 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

I seem to mind we were all pretty much of an accord that we should vote NO but then there was the curve ball of the spam filter/early announcement which basically changed the 'rules of engagement'. We (well the club) had nothing to lose by hitting the pause button. We'll never know the details of what went on but some seem to think that JN had cryptonite in his pocket, he didn't, if he voted NO then the SPFL would have just tweaked the offer and put it back to the clubs until enough were pissed off and took it. 

I can't speak for anyone else but I was in 'team JN' more because of the stuff getting thrown at him based on opinion rather than fact, even now we don't know what happened (and continues behind the scenes) but some (including yourself) seem determined that JN has somehow made a hash of things. He might have, he might not, its not like we'll find out though is it. You seem dead set that we should have at least played out the play off games (which might have angered the chasing pack but that's by the by). At the time we had no idea what was happening with regard to covid or that there would be generous benefactors willing to toss a few million into the pot. The clubs were happy to hibernate rather than risk it all. Different leagues around the world have dealt with things in their own way, we're no different, you could argue that there are too many 'wee' Senior teams in Scotland but that's a different debate, it is what it is and most of them were happy to shut up shop and weather the corona storm than see out the season. 

I still don't get why even now, some are desperate to blame JN for this. He was just the sorry mope that was hung out to dry by the SPFL. If you're looking for a guy for the bonfire I'd start there.

I agree with you, I felt similarly. I think the context of the decision making was really important and Nelms role in it did, either through poor comms or something we didn't see become much more prominent with the debacle when in reality, he was 1 of 42 CEOs in a members organisation trying to resist the urges of another 33.

At the time, the rebel alliance were tuned into goings on at Ibrox with their lawyers trying to draft this alternative resolution. I personally thought that the clock would hit pause for a and we'd see some lawyering come back with another resolution but that didn't happen. I'm particularly interested to learn about this part of the story tbh, I think there's a good possibility this is what changed the risk benefit analysis on Dundee's part. If on the Friday it started to look like there were huge issues with this endeavour (and it did seem that way), we could have been opening a can of worms that would have led to an even bigger shitfest than what we saw, it's awful business to say to all your partners in the SPFL 'We reject this resolution and present no actionable alternative', it simply makes you an obstructive partner. It was a lot going on in a short time period and we were going on tabloid snippets presented without context.

I don't think we'll ever know the specifics of what caused the u-turn from the club but we are a heavily subsidised business. It's very easy to lose sight of potential issues like cash flow etc because these guys, unlike a lot we've had in the past, just seem to get on with it quietly. In addition to the point re benefactors, we simply had no idea about aspects like furlough continuing or even how we would handle player registrations and integration with UEFA competitions. As much as there's been a lot (usually much more derogatory than anything on here) said online about our league body and various chairman, it's been a situation we couldn't reasonably predict and I think even if we had the most admirable people in charge at every level, these decisions were always going to be hard.

[Gedee]

26 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Definitely keep an eye on the crop, in the way of films everywhere, when they start doing sequels, they have to 'go bigger', Tomato Thief II will have a much bigger baddy than the original and...... the stakes will be higher. 

Fore-warned is Fore-armed ...

He may get past me, because even on Guard-Duty, I am inclined to drop-off for a wee nap suddenly 

But if he tries to confront Mrs G in hand to hand combat when she's in full flight...He's a Deid Man

[bp33]

1 hour ago, Cobra said:

Nobody on here backed a U-turn. For once we were in complete agreement if I remember correctly.

In fact even though Nelms went against the fans, some on here gave him their full backing suggesting he had played a blinder in forcing reconstruction so it's almost like he'll get support regardless of what he does from some folk.

And it’s almost like he’ll get stick from some on here, no matter what he does. 

[Wattie Rojas]

Maybe we'll get Hazard back and not have to cover his wages