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Scouting


Cobra

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For as long as I can remember United have been a better prospect for young players. They had the pick from The J League at Gussie Park and had a look at plenty players in the DDYFA.

Queens park did the hard work with Andy Robertson and Barry Douglas, it's a reflection on football in the Glasgow area that none of the clubs in a higher league would take a chance on either player.

I will give United credit for scouting Stuart Armstrong in Aberdeen.

If we had Robertson, Douglas and Armstrong we would have been ripped off by the Old Firm and sold all three for pennies, probably due to a clause in their contracts.

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29 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

For that I give you Ure, Gilzean, Cooke, Duncan , Steele, Strachan.

All played around top in England. Would Hegarty, Sturrock, Narey be found out? Ralphie was big time.

Andy Gray and Ray Stewart had good top-flight careers...Big Duncan is still a hero at Everton.

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16 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

We managed to pick up a couple of boys from Cowdenbeath a few years back.

The Blue Brazil were at the level of Ayr back then. Brilliant signings from Hartley but I'm wondering if there are diamonds in the bottom two divisions or lower. 

Martin Boyle is a player we helped become a top player but I can't think of many other examples in recent times. I remember being hopeful about Monti but that ultimately didn't work out.

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I don't know how we decide who joins our youth programme. It seems like a part of our club that is kind of separated from the main organisation. Is that correct? How does the scouting system work? Are we looking for new first team prospects and potential youth academy candidates? When Hartley was our manager we seemed to  bring in older players who seemed closer to first team football. Was that because FPS really believed in the Youth Academy approach? Has that attitude changed? 

I'm not trying to stir things up but I worry that a Youth policy that is based on selling players is a gamble and there might be a better approach.

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53 minutes ago, Cobra said:

The Blue Brazil were at the level of Ayr back then. Brilliant signings from Hartley but I'm wondering if there are diamonds in the bottom two divisions or lower. 

Martin Boyle is a player we helped become a top player but I can't think of many other examples in recent times. I remember being hopeful about Monti but that ultimately didn't work out.

I too thought Monti might be good. I think sometimes the other players in the squad just "know"that a player is not all that good. It isn't anything that they can put their finger on but it's like a comic dying on stage. There's nothing that can be done. 

Martin Boyle was an example of no final ball. We spent months watching him do some stuff brilliantly but he never knew what to do when he got clear. Lennon coached the other players at Hibs how to give Boyle options and drilled him into being a better player. 

I think that's our main problem, still. We just don't seem able to iron out deficiencies in a player. The only recent example that is an exception is Cammy and his efforts to improve his final cross. I think he has made progress and hope he carries on improving.

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1 hour ago, charliedee said:

Don't think united scouted Armstrong.. He was at Inverness till about 15 I think and United got him from them 

If they've scouted Armstrong at Inverness and talked him down to Tannadice, that's a result for the dabs.

It doesn't matter whether we spot some in kid in Inverness or Brechin. What matters is whether we can bring them to Dundee and whether they have the potential to deliver  like Kev Mac, Gav Rae and Fozzy.

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Bottom line is we are not acquiring youngsters and turning them into top class players. Why not?

- We don't lack have the scouting capability?

- We don't lack have the coaching capability?

- Is the quality not there in the first place?

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7 hours ago, Cobra said:

Bottom line is we are not acquiring youngsters and turning them into top class players. Why not?

- We don't lack have the scouting capability?

- We don't lack have the coaching capability?

- Is the quality not there in the first place?

I got the impression that Finn Robertson was the first on a 'conveyor belt' that was coming through from the youths. Guys like Wattie will know better but I thought the club had got a lot better about this stuff.

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7 hours ago, Cobra said:

Bottom line is we are not acquiring youngsters and turning them into top class players. Why not?

- We don't lack have the scouting capability?

- We don't lack have the coaching capability?

- Is the quality not there in the first place?

It could be a combination of factors. We have equally seen proven ‘quality’ players come to Dens and spectacularly flop. I think it was @harry94 who pointed out that a lot of our recruitment has been done en masse (Last 3 managers?) which creates a bit of chaos and has perhaps stifled the true potential of a large number of the signings. We seem to always be replacing entire squads rather than  looking at individual areas within a team that could be strengthened and identifying players that are particularly suited to that specific role. 
The constant focus and turnover of first team players maybe limits opportunity for the youths in some respects. Although McPake has been very proactive with giving youth a chance.  However, I think we desperately need some  first team squad stability before the youth team can fully prosper and our scouting system can be accurately assessed. 

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