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Sectarianism


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He does have point, Neil Lennon said pretty much the same thing about his treatment surrounding his faith.

I’ve said it before, until they start taking off points from the ugly sisters for the bile that they sing we will see no change in this type of behaviour... 

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7 minutes ago, BigG said:

He does have point, Neil Lennon said pretty much the same thing about his treatment surrounding his faith.

I’ve said it before, until they start taking off points from the ugly sisters for the bile that they sing we will see no change in this type of behaviour... 

My mum's side are Protestant and my dad's side are Catholic. Neither of my parents are religious so the whole sectarianism issue doesn't really affect me.

If other folk are feeling victimised because of their religious leaning though then maybe it is an issue that needs to be treated like racism.

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10 hours ago, BigG said:

He does have point, Neil Lennon said pretty much the same thing about his treatment surrounding his faith.

I’ve said it before, until they start taking off points from the ugly sisters for the bile that they sing we will see no change in this type of behaviour... 

The only way to stop it at games is to have empty stands. We've seen Celtic fans flying Palestinian flags knowing that its going to cost the club money. Points might have more effect than a fine but still not a guarantee. 

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1 hour ago, HK Blues said:

It's hard to argue with him - any discrimination is bad and maybe we shouldn't have a hierarchy when talking about discrimination.  

Unfortunately, most (if not all) of us do. I doubt there will be many who think calling someone a "fat b'stard" is as bad as calling someone a "black b'stard" although it all comes from a crappy hurtful place.

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17 hours ago, chomp my root said:

Unfortunately, most (if not all) of us do. I doubt there will be many who think calling someone a "fat b'stard" is as bad as calling someone a "black b'stard" although it all comes from a crappy hurtful place.

Even as I was typing my post I knew that I was more suggesting the ideal world position rather then the real world - there cannot be many of us who don't have their own internal hierarchy. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

UEFA have a three-step protocol for tackling racism from the stands. This was seen to good effect last year when England visited Bulgaria and the game was stopped twice due to crowd-related racist incidents. Public address announcements were made to spectators imploring the morons to desist or match abandonment would be the consequence.

Why can't the same system operate in connection with sectarianism? If we can rid football of this blight it would, in my view, help to eradicate the problem in society. A significant step in the right direction.

Football grounds can breed anti-social behaviour but just wishing the problem away or turning a blind eye is a totally inadequate response from those who possess the power to effect real change.

On more than one level it's embarrassing.

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15 hours ago, Barfly said:

UEFA have a three-step protocol for tackling racism from the stands. This was seen to good effect last year when England visited Bulgaria and the game was stopped twice due to crowd-related racist incidents. Public address announcements were made to spectators imploring the morons to desist or match abandonment would be the consequence.

Why can't the same system operate in connection with sectarianism? If we can rid football of this blight it would, in my view, help to eradicate the problem in society. A significant step in the right direction.

Football grounds can breed anti-social behaviour but just wishing the problem away or turning a blind eye is a totally inadequate response from those who possess the power to effect real change.

On more than one level it's embarrassing.

There's always the possibility that 40 or 50 thousand odd cretins aren't going to disperse, for a one off game you can mobilise the police to deal with it. Week in, week out, not so much and we'd be talking a LOT of overtime.

I've banged on about it before on these issues but restricted numbers seem the way to me. If there's an issue at a ground then the capacity of the ground is reduced, if it continues it gets further reduced, down to closed door games. Fans have been happy to hurt their club financially in the past as the fines haven't been massive but if they can't actually be at the game then it might make them behave. 

They might not care as much at away games but the same can apply, reduce the number of away fans and have more cameras, have stewards walking round the front of the stand obviously filming the fans ideally i away fans need to be a member of an official club scheme then their details will be held and they can be made accountable and treated accordingly (court/ban etc).

I agree that wishful thinking and a 'can do' attitude ain't gonna make a bit of difference so we either accept it (not my preferred option) or actually deal with it, even if its a heavy handed approach.

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1 hour ago, chomp my root said:

There's always the possibility that 40 or 50 thousand odd cretins aren't going to disperse, for a one off game you can mobilise the police to deal with it. Week in, week out, not so much and we'd be talking a LOT of overtime.

I've banged on about it before on these issues but restricted numbers seem the way to me. If there's an issue at a ground then the capacity of the ground is reduced, if it continues it gets further reduced, down to closed door games. Fans have been happy to hurt their club financially in the past as the fines haven't been massive but if they can't actually be at the game then it might make them behave. 

They might not care as much at away games but the same can apply, reduce the number of away fans and have more cameras, have stewards walking round the front of the stand obviously filming the fans ideally i away fans need to be a member of an official club scheme then their details will be held and they can be made accountable and treated accordingly (court/ban etc).

I agree that wishful thinking and a 'can do' attitude ain't gonna make a bit of difference so we either accept it (not my preferred option) or actually deal with it, even if its a heavy handed approach.

Nothing in there I would disagree with. The fines imposed by UEFA have been laughable. They need to raise the bar. SFA could and should do so much more but wash their hands of the issues as they always have done. Time to get real and if a heavy-handed approach is required, so be it.

You would think that the current BLM movement would highlight other issues in society that require attention, but not much has been spoken against sectarianism that I can see, James McClean's comments being the notable exception. Controversial figure he may be, but good on him for speaking out.

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The problem with trying to rid this country of the embarrassment of sectarianism is that there are too many people, particularly those in positions of power in government and the judiciary, that consider there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.  I've don't personally  have any evidence of this, just a gut feeling.

Some fella was trying to tell me a few weeks back that there is no problem, there is nothing wrong with it and in fact it's part of our Scottish heritage.  Almost like we should be embracing it.  Pointless debating or even discussing it with these people.  A complete waste of time even trying to re-educate them.  Things will only change if FIFA or UEFA get involved and substantial penalties are given out.  The OF are in no hurry to condemn sectarianism as their clubs, their large support and therefore their income is built around it.

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