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This Sky and Bt Tv Money ...... Please Can We Have Some ?

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http://www.thecourier.co.uk/sport/football/spfl/scottish-football-urged-to-fight-for-more-tv-money-1.846097

I know the issues around the recently signed contract/deal, of Sky and BT TV money, agreed to be paid to the English Premier Football, compared to the paltry amount paid to the Scottish Premiership has ben recently raised on this forum (probably by me ..... sorry)

But in light of the announcement by DFC to raise the price of season tickets, I thought I might be justified in raising this again.

The main reason DFC give for the price increase, is to maintain and build a team that we can all be proud of.

And similiarly a stadium that can be up to the standard that reflects our improving Club.

(Fans have their own view of whether this increase is justified. And raising this topic has nothing to do at all, as to whether they are right or wrong)

Nor is it in ANY way a political thread (grievance) about what might be seeen as the inequality of the treatment of England vs Scotland.

I have added a link above from the "Courier" .....

Although there are many articles around the internet on this subject that show the disparity in football terms.

Before Scottish Football dies all together........ My question is .......

Could the SPFL, in line with STV or BBC Scotland, not work out a deal themselves, that would suit our Scottish Game ?

I really no nothing at all about this (some others might) .....let alone the answer.

But if the only answer we can keep coming up with is, to keep raising the attendance prices Scottish Football will die (imo)

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Agreed Gedee. If Sky and BT gave Scottish football a fairer share of the TV money in the UK we'd have a far greater product to sell rights too around the world.

There's roughly 10% of the UK population in Scotland. Its a pity Scottish football didn't see 10% of the dough these 2 TV companies plough into the EPL.

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Taken from an Article in Scotzine ..........."It is even more damning to realise that just two games in the English Premier League cover the full season’s Scottish football tv deal"

"UK television broadcasters will pay more to show two English Premier League games than they shell out to show an entire season of Scottish Professional Football League action"

(As already said, not necessarily a criticism of DFC, or even SKY or BT, or a political point.  Just looking for some answers to help Scotish Fotball)

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http://www.thecourier.co.uk/sport/football/spfl/scottish-football-urged-to-fight-for-more-tv-money-1.846097

I know the issues around the recently signed contract/deal, of Sky and BT TV money, agreed to be paid to the English Premier Football, compared to the paltry amount paid to the Scottish Premiership has ben recently raised on this forum (probably by me ..... sorry)

But in light of the announcement by DFC to raise the price of season tickets, I thought I might be justified in raising this again.

The main reason DFC give for the price increase, is to maintain and build a team that we can all be proud of.

And similiarly a stadium that can be up to the standard that reflects our improving Club.

(Fans have their own view of whether this increase is justified. And raising this topic has nothing to do at all, as to whether they are right or wrong)

Nor is it in ANY way a political thread (grievance) about what might be seeen as the inequality of the treatment of England vs Scotland.

I have added a link above from the "Courier" .....

Although there are many articles around the internet on this subject that show the disparity in football terms.

Before Scottish Football dies all together........ My question is .......

Could the SPFL, in line with STV or BBC Scotland, not work out a deal themselves, that would suit our Scottish Game ?

I really no nothing at all about this (some others might) .....let alone the answer.

But if the only answer we can keep coming up with is, to keep raising the attendance prices Scottish Football will die (imo)

This is exactly the right time to be raising this and you have hit the nail on the head with your post Gedee.

Today's announcement from our club on next seasons ST prices has caused a backlash towards the club that they do not deserve in my opinion.

We, like every other Scottish club, are operating in an environment where huge gambles have to be taken (speculating to accumulate mainly) due to the criminal lack of leadership and sound business practice from our governing bodies.

The lack of innovation, foresight and business acumen that is on display amongst the SPFL and SFA is unforgivable.

Due to the fact that we receive an absolute pittance in terms of media rights and sponsorship (what sponsorship?) revenue, clubs and supporters alike are backed into a corner where they can only exist on a hand to mouth basis, doing only just enough to keep ticking over.

I honestly don't think we are beyond the point of no return yet as we have a passionate nation full of football mad supporters who want to make our product and game better.

One thing is for sure - we will get nowhere and will continually be sold way, way short with our current leadership.

Supporters that truly love their club are being leaned on more than ever due to this current TV deal and it plays the biggest part in what's perceived to be the dismal end product that is Scottish Football at present and the perception that "clubs don't think about the fans" 

The SPFL and SFA simply have to improve on every level if we stand a chance of modest growth or even sustainability.

It's either that or time for another breakaway by the clubs to lobby for a better deal in a climate where our game has been so badly damaged by the incompetence of the existing administrations.

Looking at our situation.. we have just seen some major investment (in our terms) from a group of individuals who have been forced to take what would be an unacceptable risk in almost every other industry in the world.

In real terms - the only way for FPS to add any sort of value to their investment in the meantime is to do everything possible to ensure football revenue is maximised (ST's, contract extensions for best players, supporting the manager).

If groups such as FPS want to start turning reasonable profits and growing their business' more fully, they need to wait it out for a much, much better TV deal and / or develop their stadiums / facilities to maximise football revenue even further (in our case, FPS may regain the title deeds for Dens and add a stadium to the business that was not there when the club was purchased - adding resale value as well)

The situation is a mess and it will take money and time to fix..

:mad:

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Boba ....excellent detailed response. You have raised even further problems around the whole area of Scottish Football Sponsorship.

And I am glad to see we are no' going doon the road of party politics (at least no' on this thread)

Your following quote ......."The lack of innovation, foresight and business acumen that is on display amongst the SPFL and SFA is unforgivable"

I think they have a great deal to answer for .....If not all the blame, certainly (imo) a great deal of the blame must be theirs.

And to quote you again .."One thing is for sure - we will get nowhere and will continually be sold way, way short with our current leadership"

( I cant keep quoting your whole post Boba, but I might suggest others read again from " Looking at our situation ..... to the end of your post )

Basically if things dont change in the way of of increasing the huge share of TV money ...... that is for DFC and other Scottish Clubs, the BOD (investors) DFC, and supporters at Dundee, and other Scottish Clubs, we will continue to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

And everyone knows and agrees, that smaller crowds means less revenue, means higher prices, means even smaller crowds, means evn bigger hiked prices, and so on and so on, is frankly,unsustainable.

Wished I knew the answers, but I don't !!  But if we hope to see Scottish Footbal grow, or at least hold it's own, something will have to be done.

The money beeing paid down South to Clubs, Players, Managers, has been described as "obscene".

Whether it is or not, is not (at this time anyway) the question .....

The question is ...... 

WHAT POTENTIALLY GOOD QUALITY PLAYER OR MANAGER IS GOING TO STAY IN SCOTLAND WHEN HE CAN CROSS THE BORDER AND BE PAID FOUR TIMES AS MUCH ?

SIMILIARILY, WHAT HALF DECENT (FIT) PLAYER WILL BE RUSHING NORTH TO SOME CLUB IN SCOTLAND, WHO CAN OFFER A QUARTER OF THE WAGE HE IS PRESENTLY PAID?

.............I think most of you see where I am going with this, and what effect it will have on our game in Scotland.

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Sorry for the short reply guys.

I have no facts to back this up, but I'd bet that more folk in Scotland settle down to watch English football live on TV than SPFL fare. Until that stops, this is a simple no go-er.

I'm confused as to why Sky, BT or anyone else would pay more for something that isn't creating any interest anywhere.

I visited a friend in Leeds the other month and we chat about football a fair bit. He had NO IDEA that the top division in Scotland splits into two leagues of six, because other than keeping an eye on our result so he can comment on how we're doing, he can't muster any excitement for the Scottish game.

Cries for summer football, and holding out for better TV money will achieve nought because no one could really care less about our game when they can switch over to watch La Liga or the like... 

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WHAT POTENTIALLY GOOD QUALITY PLAYER OR MANAGER IS GOING TO STAY IN SCOTLAND WHEN HE CAN CROSS THE BORDER AND BE PAID FOUR TIMES AS MUCH ?

SIMILIARILY, WHAT HALF DECENT (FIT) PLAYER WILL BE RUSHING NORTH TO SOME CLUB IN SCOTLAND, WHO CAN OFFER A QUARTER OF THE WAGE HE IS PRESENTLY PAID?

.............I think most of you see where I am going with this, and what effect it will have on our game in Scotland.

Gedee, when was it ever any different?

Look where the best of the league winning side went and tell me England hasn't always been the draw.

Or look through the players in our World Cup squads in the 80s. How many of them played in Scotland...?

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Sorry for the short reply guys.

I have no facts to back this up, but I'd bet that more folk in Scotland settle down to watch English football live on TV than SPFL fare. Until that stops, this is a simple no go-er.

I'm confused as to why Sky, BT or anyone else would pay more for something that isn't creating any interest anywhere.

I visited a friend in Leeds the other month and we chat about football a fair bit. He had NO IDEA that the top division in Scotland splits into two leagues of six, because other than keeping an eye on our result so he can comment on how we're doing, he can't muster any excitement for the Scottish game.

Cries for summer football, and holding out for better TV money will achieve nought because no one could really care less about our game when they can switch over to watch La Liga or the like...

I don't doubt what you are saying @@barkblue . Outside interest in our game is at a record low for several reasons.

One is the fact that we are next door to the monster that is the English Premier League. Another is the the complete mis management of the game in Scotland from top to bottom during the last twenty years.

Like you, I don't think we could ever hope to emulate the revenues being generated by some of Europes top leagues but I do firmly believe that our leagues deserve a far better level of investment than they are currently seeing.

To put that into context, in 2009 ( by which time our clubs and our game was already in the mire) SKY and ESPN signed a deal with the only the ten SPL teams worth £65 million. League Sponsorship also brought in over £1million to each club.

Our current deal is between £13 and 15 million per season for all four leagues and we have no league sponsorship money being made available to any club!

I agree that our game is not the most attractive proposition right now but with some tough decisions being made and some sensible innovation, we are worth significantly more than what our clubs are having to survive on just now.

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I don't doubt what you are saying @@barkblue . Outside interest in our game is at a record low for several reasons.

One is the fact that we are next door to the monster that is the English Premier League. Another is the the complete mis management of the game in Scotland from top to bottom during the last twenty years.

Like you, I don't think we could ever hope to emulate the revenues being generated by some of Europes top leagues but I do firmly believe that our leagues deserve a far better level of investment than they are currently seeing.

To put that into context, in 2009 ( by which time our clubs and our game was already in the mire) SKY and ESPN signed a deal with the only the ten SPL teams worth £65 million. League Sponsorship also brought in over £1million to each club.

Our current deal is between £13 and 15 million per season for all four leagues and we have no league sponsorship money being made available to any club!

I agree that our game is not the most attractive proposition right now but with some tough decisions being made and some sensible innovation, we are worth significantly more than what our clubs are having to survive on just now.

Caught 10 minutes of the St Mirren - Ross County game on telly last night.  Great advert for the game in Scotland it was not!  Do we actually think that this drivel helps sell the game to potential sponsors?  So we know that the TV money is divided up and included with the prize money at the end of the season (I think) regardless of how many times you are on TV? So why are we not just showing the biggest games.  Derbies, top of the table clashes, play offs.  I would punt any game from TV that is not able to muster a crowd of 5000 punters.  Maybe not fair on the smaller clubs but we have got to be a bit more professional and business-like with this.

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Gedee, when was it ever any different?

Look where the best of the league winning side went and tell me England hasn't always been the draw.

Or look through the players in our World Cup squads in the 80s. How many of them played in Scotland...?

The money paid out by the TV Companies....... ( proportionately to the population to each Country)....... to both England and Scotland football authorities is unequal.       And this appears to be basically accepted by all.         That it is....... proportionately......... not equal.

(Because this might appear I am trying to make a political point barkblue, I will emphasise again I am NOT. I am just hoping someone can find a solution)

It is true I would accept, that players heading for England has always been the the way of thngs.

But the latest TV deal, it seems has given them a bigger incentive to move from Scotland, because of this extra very large financial windfall.

And to be honest I do not be-grudge them that. In fact, good on them that managed to get a deal like that in England.

But it does put the focus back on the SFA or/and SPFL and make me wonder, what exactly are THEY being paid to do.

(Boba, no' falling oot wi' ye over this at all. But I personally feel we are reaching a point, where there has to be a better solution, if we hope DFC and Scottish Football to survive. Endlessly raising admissision prices (imo) and in the present circumstances, are never going to work, long term)

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Sorry for the short reply guys.

I have no facts to back this up, but I'd bet that more folk in Scotland settle down to watch English football live on TV than SPFL fare. Until that stops, this is a simple no go-er.

I'm confused as to why Sky, BT or anyone else would pay more for something that isn't creating any interest anywhere.

I visited a friend in Leeds the other month and we chat about football a fair bit. He had NO IDEA that the top division in Scotland splits into two leagues of six, because other than keeping an eye on our result so he can comment on how we're doing, he can't muster any excitement for the Scottish game.

Cries for summer football, and holding out for better TV money will achieve nought because no one could really care less about our game when they can switch over to watch La Liga or the like...

It's about supply and demand. I heard a guy on Talksport on Sumday that lives in London. He supports Arsenal and Orient. He hadn't even heard of Raith Rovers.

In my old job I worked and communicated with people from all over the UK. A lot of them didn't know there was two teams in Dundee. And as you said they didn't have a clue about our league splitting. No one that I worked with had any interest whatsoever in Scottish football. They would not sit down and watch a game on Sky or BT.

There is also a lot of kids up here that don't support a Scottish team. They are only interested in the usual suspects down south.

I can understand why Sky etc will not pay more for the rights to our game unfortunate as it is. It would be brilliant if we got even 5% of what the English league got but that is not going to happen because there is not enough interest in our game.

I think we have to take radical steps and go to summer football. Maybe then when there is not so much competition for viewers the broadcasters may pay a little more. I think it is worth a try

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I think we have to take radical steps and go to summer football. Maybe then when there is not so much competition for viewers the broadcasters may pay a little more. I think it is worth a try

DeeMo ..... That last bit keeps coming back to the forum. But that certainly disnae mean it might no' be the way to go.

Fans seem to be equally split on this. And some of the reasons for and against, appear to carry a lot of weight. Me? I think it would be worth a try.

If there is an interest in this debate again, I do not see why it should not be debated here as another consideration towards a possioble solution.

I think within one of the newspaper articles, it said the payout to TWO Premier games was equal to the payout for ALL Scottish Premier ship games for the WHOLE SEASON. If that is the case (and I may be wrong) it is not surprising, the standard of football between the two Countries is so far apart.

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DeeMo ..... That last bit keeps coming back to the forum. But that certainly disnae mean it might no' be the way to go.

Fans seem to be equally split on this. And some of the reasons for and against, appear to carry a lot of weight. Me? I think it would be worth a try.

If there is an interest in this debate again, I do not see why it should not be debated here as another consideration towards a possioble solution.

I think within one of the newspaper articles, it said the payout to TWO Premier games was equal to the payout for ALL Scottish Premier ship games for the WHOLE SEASON. If that is the case (and I may be wrong) it is not surprising, the standard of football between the two Countries is so far apart.

I personally am all for trying summer football. I can see the arguments against it but for me the way the game is going up here as a whole I think it maybe would inject more fans through the door and maybe a better tv deal.

You are correct about the payments between the English and Scottish game. The English game is massively overpaid while our game is massively underpaid imo. It is all about supply and demand though and the broadcasters know a hellava lot more about it than me so my opinion is probably wrong.

Also controversial as it is I think it would be better for our game up here if Rangers were to come up rather than Hibs,QOS or Falkirk or even Motherwell staying up. Personally I would prefer Hibs up but is that the best result for our game. I don't think so. The broadcasters want Rangers up so they can show Rangers v Celtic. It is unfortunately the only game up here that has world wide interest. I couldn't care less about it and to be honest haven't watched them play each other in about twenty years

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Sorry for the short reply guys.

I have no facts to back this up, but I'd bet that more folk in Scotland settle down to watch English football live on TV than SPFL fare. Until that stops, this is a simple no go-er.

I'm confused as to why Sky, BT or anyone else would pay more for something that isn't creating any interest anywhere.

I visited a friend in Leeds the other month and we chat about football a fair bit. He had NO IDEA that the top division in Scotland splits into two leagues of six, because other than keeping an eye on our result so he can comment on how we're doing, he can't muster any excitement for the Scottish game.

Cries for summer football, and holding out for better TV money will achieve nought because no one could really care less about our game when they can switch over to watch La Liga or the like... 

Nail on head - -I never watch Scottish games and rarely English mind you as only DFC and Scotland get me excited between World Cups. Its all about viewing figs, advertising and the resultant revenue. Fact is that some Scottish games have viewing figures under 20,000 so why pay for an ad when one in the Tully with as many readers would be cheaper. (I know ads are packaged but this is a simple example)

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Anybody moaning about the increase in ST prices really needs to get a grip,especially if they expect us to continue to compete or progress next season and beyond.

Sky give Scottish Football a paltry sum in comparison to what's dished out in England but there's not a lot we can do about it.We've can argue until we're blue in the face or just get on with it.

The team we see on the park this season is probably a good bit outwith our means,we are lucky that Bill Colvin is still putting his hand in his pocket to give us a relatively successful team on the park.Lets face it,if we're not prepared to go the extra mile to fund a real DFC team then why should we expect others like Bill/Pam Colvin to.

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