Groundshare….

[harry94]

2 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

No football club is a business. Ready Soccernomics, they are all toys there to win trophies at any cost. Man Utd, the richest club in the world? They are in debt to over £400m. That’s not a business. Businesses exist to make money.

Man Utd are one of the most valuable businesses in the world! At that level, debt means something entirely different. Their board have been terrible at the football side because it doesn't matter as much to them if they are just competing in the Champions League consistently.

[harry94]

Turning back to the Dens side. Any idea what the development value would be for a site of that size?

Had the rumours for years about the site being bad etc but new housing is a pretty big topic right now with the whole sustainability angle. Location wise, it is well served and you'd think there's other development potential in the vicinity.

[DeeVinci]

What a mess, there is no way DFC should be homeless and have to share with Utd/Arbroath/Saints as what happens if the pipe dream stadium takes 3 to 4 years to build and were homeless.  No way will 2-3k of supporters of DFC follow a bottom 6 or championship club to Perth to watch every week for more than a few games. The habit of going to Dens is the only thing saving our crowds just now.

Slow death of a once proud club, just when you think you've heard it all.

This might be acceptable if bricks were being laid at Camperdown and a company had bought Dens and deposited the millions into our bank account but this all stinks of a dangerous plan to finance a new stadium that could leave the club permanently homeless. To many risks have been taken before with DFC and we've survived twice by the skin of our teeth...just by the skin of our teeth.

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

30 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Man Utd are one of the most valuable businesses in the world! At that level, debt means something entirely different. Their board have been terrible at the football side because it doesn't matter as much to them if they are just competing in the Champions League consistently.

But who is making money?

[Dens Bound Rhino]

7 minutes ago, harry94 said:

Turning back to the Dens side. Any idea what the development value would be for a site of that size?

Had the rumours for years about the site being bad etc but new housing is a pretty big topic right now with the whole sustainability angle. Location wise, it is well served and you'd think there's other development potential in the vicinity.

How much did the camper down site cost? I seem to recall about £1.5 million, possibly just making that up though . It is a much bigger site than Dens but it was also a commercial site rather than residential, which you would assume Dens would be used as a residential site.

I think private developers would pay around £150-200k per acre for private housing on a good Greenfield site, I would imagine less at site like Dens but it gives a ball park. Not sure the exact size of the ground at dens though. 

[Campbell]

19 minutes ago, Dens Bound Rhino said:

I was referring to the notion that their reasons for buying it back was to sell it then go back to America.

Agree with your last point though. 

Thanks for your response DBR, for what its worth, I have to confess I was takin in by all the "hype" about moving to a "shiny new home etc. etc. but its been years and years now and apparently there hasn't even been a planning app made (despite all the bulls**t from John Nelms) and to make matters worse, our owners communication with us the fans (the life blood of the club) is at an all time low (ticketing fiasco, silence, state of the ground, mare silence) is totally unacceptable and irresponsible if your trying to influence your customers.

Ba's burst along time ago, don't trust anything they say.

[Taipei]

1 hour ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

No football club is a business. Ready Soccernomics, they are all toys there to win trophies at any cost. Man Utd, the richest club in the world? They are in debt to over £400m. That’s not a business. Businesses exist to make money.

Debt and business go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive. The Glazers have taken anywhere from £600 million to £1.1 billion out of the club. Its been a very profitable business for them to get into.

[Taipei]

If Dens is worth xx amount of money, why would the owner sell it to Keyes?

If I was he owner, Id take the rent from the club for the next few years, if the club does moves to Campy, Id take action to get the full amount due, and sell the land, and be quids in. I can't see the land being that valuable either.

[Mr Sensible]

4 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

Get used to the idea - that's the end game.

Won’t be a club, if that’s the case.

[19seventyone]

6 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

What's to stop Keyes buying Dens and then cutting and running? Not that I believe that'd ever be his intention, but a spiralling stadium cost could put a kibosh on things further down the line.

Dangerous situation.

I’ve read the thread up to the quoted post and agreed with most of the positive arguments but Ludo says exactly what I was thinking.

We wouldn’t be the first club to be completely shafted by an owner thousands of miles away. 
 

Our history of owners makes me a skeptic even though Keyes has backed the club consistently.

 

[Ludo*1]

10 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

Get used to the idea - that's the end game.

Based on what?

Eta: Just read up to this post and see that it's been explained.

[Napper]

I've no idea of the true intentions of the Americans. Although their track record of choosing managers has been pretty piss poor, it has to be acknowledged they have supported all the managers, and the club in general, financially... As for this scheme, surely work would have to be, at least, started at Camperdown, with a projected completion date, before the club loses Dens?

If they jump before any work has begun on the new place, it puts the club in a very dangerous position. Basically, any club letting DFC ground share would have us over a barrel in regards to how much rent they can charge. As much as it pains me to say this, Tannadice is the only feasible ground sharing option. We've been hemorrhaging supporters for years. Moving twenty odd miles east to Arbroath, or a similar distance in the other direction to McDiarmid, would be suicide in regard to fan numbers. Imagine if they sold Dens before work began on the new ground. How many years would the club be homeless? If that's the case, it, imho, would lead to the final knockings of a once proud club. As I said, the only way I can see this working is with these conditions. Work is fairly progressed on the new place, there was a definite completion date and, we only ground shared (I'm afraid it would have to be Tannadice) two seasons, or a maximum of three. 

I imagine Nelms and Keyes, have already discussed this with potential temp Landlords. I can see the boards of the mini sheep and the day glo massive rubbing their hands with glee.. extra income and the chance to royally f**k us over. 

Scary days ahead I feel.