Is Tim Keyes the 'Key' to Any Real Change to the Present Structure of Our Club?

[Gedee]

Normally when it reaches the stage of a manager showing he's failing, or simply not up to the job, either he will put his hands up & walk away, or simply be dismissed. It appears this is not going to happen. And even if it did, are we then expected to hand over the reins to JN to become involved (again) in the process of selecting a new manager to take the helm? (We have all seen where that  is leading us)

I am NOT gonna start again here, ripping into the incompotence of both JMP & JN (however justified) But for whatever reason, there does seem to be some kind of "bond" between them, that means things are never gonna change...I am not sure whether this is laziness, or some misguided belief in each other's ability, whereby they will continue with the status quo, in the misguided belief, that maybe with a wee bit more time, DFC will get back on track.

This kind of "bond/love-in" (as I see it) seems to extend (imo) to all the three main parties invoved in the success/failure of DFC...

And if this is the case, it NOT healthy. And is having a disastrous effect on Our Club, that is giving us a real worry as to our future.

As said, I am NOT gonna go over the top criticising JN or JMP. Although it appears, neither is suited to their present roles, they may well be decent men, that still have skills that could be better used in other more suited roles. But I'm concerned about situation DFC are in now. And even more concerned as to our future.

I'd like to encourage, a constructive discussion, that could open the door to some solution.

Do others agree, that any real change, must come from Tim Keyes? Is he the man to do it?

Think time has come for Tim Keyes to contact JN & JMP...To offer them New Roles at DFC.

He appears to prefer, either to detach himself from the main business, or not rock the boat.

If, as seems the case, he likes the idea of "relationships" I'd suggest, he sends a directive to

JN to focus exclusively on his New Role (Maybe Campie Project, if it is still ongoing) 

And to move JMP from his present mgr position to trainee/coach of DFC young lads.

Then Advertise Properly. And consider a Professional Managerial Selection Process.

If changes are made, then we might look like to any new manager a better prospect.

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone who has DFC at heart will be appreciated.

 

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

I did mention last week that Keys is responsible for his man in the ground so is as culpable as JN in running our club down. Come on Tim, let’s hear from you. Get Nelms back home and appoint a football man to run our club.

[Les Barr legend]

We definitely need to change the way things are done. Changing nearly the whole squad every season, and paying big wages to over the hill players isn’t working. We are basically gambling our money every year on older players or players with a history of injuries.

We need players coming through the ranks, not signing players who are rank. For people who have made money out of business, our directors seem very naive and throw money away rather than invest in the future. 
Away from the playing side, there seems to be no, or very little plan. Communication with fans is next to zero, which creates anxieties and divisions amongst fans. A simple update every month or so, telling us anything really, would go a long way to appeasing our fan base. 
I don’t think they get how much the fans care about the club. For many, this is the main thing in their life and their reason for getting up every day. To alienate these people from something they feel so passionately about is a huge mistake, and will cost us future generations of fans. 
They need to stop running it like a side business and give it the attention it deserves, and create a better club and culture that our loyal fans deserve.

[andrak]

In the spirit of a good discussion, here's my tuppenceworth

I think harmony between the owners Directors and Manager is an essential ingredient to long-term success. I think it can go wrong where that relationship is perhaps bound by personal relationships and where difficult decisions have to be made.

That said, I can't imagine that John Nelms and Tim Keyes have any real personal relationship with James McPake. I think it is purely professional and I strongly believe that the owners and Directors will choose to change the manager with barely a second thought for their relationship with McPake.

Without getting into whether they should have appointed McPake in the first place, I imagine there are a number of alternates in mind, some of whom may already have been spoken to. What will trigger the decision to pull the plug would be the season long prospects for the club. Not the results from a handful of games on their own, and definitely not the feelings of fans.

I don't have a problem with that. It is their investment, not ours. I worry that some fans feel a certain level of entitlement over the club and how it is run. I don't really understand that and feel that it drives much of the anger, and lack of human compassion, business logic, and professional common sense that we are seeing on these pages.

I am mostly resigned to the fact that we are heading for a new manager, that relegation is likely and a shake-up of the way the board operates could soon come.

I would love to see Jack Ross come to the club. That will only happen if he thinks there is a chance of saving us from relegation with the current squad. Failing that, I wouldn't be unhappy if Paul Hartley came back and was asked to rebuild a squad for a return to the premiership in 2023. Failing that I would want to go for a young manager who has had success in lower leagues and give them three years to build something good. I would not want a Yogi, Tommy Wright or even an Alex Neil type character.

[Sebastiano Nela]

I want an experienced manager that knows what he is doing. Someone who can come in and put some structure and professionalism back into the club.

The last person to do that in any way shape or form was Hartley and you can argue that we are in a worse state overall now than we were when he left. I wouldn't be against bringing him back but why would he actually take it on. We're a total shitshow. 

Look at how Ross County have done since mackay came in. Meanwhile we've dithered with no real direction or strategy, have stuck with a manager who's out his depth and has had a shyte transfer window. 

No dabs and no rookie managers. 

 

[Abernethy Dee]

13 minutes ago, Sebastiano Nela said:

I want an experienced manager that knows what he is doing. Someone who can come in and put some structure and professionalism back into the club.

The last person to do that in any way shape or form was Hartley and you can argue that we are in a worse state overall now than we were when he left. I wouldn't be against bringing him back but why would he actually take it on. We're a total shitshow. 

Look at how Ross County have done since mackay came in. Meanwhile we've dithered with no real direction or strategy, have stuck with a manager who's out his depth and has had a shyte transfer window. 

No dabs and no rookie managers. 

 

Would personally love to see Dick Campbell given a short term shot at the job, he is a real motivator and has worked miracles with Arbroath and I think he thoroughly deserves a shot at a club like Dundee, and if anybody can sort out John Nelms it will be him! I think he is our best shot at possibly staying in this league.

[Parcbara]

21 minutes ago, andrak said:

Without getting into whether they should have appointed McPake in the first place, I imagine there are a number of alternates in mind, some of whom may already have been spoken to. What will trigger the decision to pull the plug would be the season long prospects for the club. Not the results from a handful of games on their own, and definitely not the feelings of fans.

I agree with what you say in the post, but would point out that this is not about a handful of games. This is a persistent  inability to get crucial points. These last five games against teams that we reasonably could assume to be able to achieve such has resulted in 2 from15. Fifteen that we fans could reasonably have expected to acquire  more than half of that, given the amount of homes games.  But it is not a handful of games. Far from it.

[Mr Sensible]

16 minutes ago, Sebastiano Nela said:

I want an experienced manager that knows what he is doing. Someone who can come in and put some structure and professionalism back into the club.

The last person to do that in any way shape or form was Hartley and you can argue that we are in a worse state overall now than we were when he left. I wouldn't be against bringing him back but why would he actually take it on. We're a total shitshow. 

Look at how Ross County have done since mackay came in. Meanwhile we've dithered with no real direction or strategy, have stuck with a manager who's out his depth and has had a shyte transfer window. 

No dabs and no rookie managers. 

 

Look at Martindale at Livi.

What’s his secret? 

He certainly isn’t no Pep, but he has that team fit, organised and every player seems to play for him.

Compare it our mates club, where no one seems to give a 5hit, then the manager rambles nonsense post match.

”A team to be proud of”  I’ve seen some terrible dee teams over the years, but the vast majority left it out on the pitch, these charlatans put the white flag up yesterday in an incredibly crucial match, and that is totally unacceptable.

I personally couldn’t be less proud of this mob.
 

[Double Blue]

2 minutes ago, Abernethy Dee said:

Would personally love to see Dick Campbell given a short term shot at the job, he is a real motivator and has worked miracles with Arbroath and I think he thoroughly deserves a shot at a club like Dundee, and if anybody can sort out John Nelms it will be him! I think he is our best shot at possibly staying in this league.

Why would the Campbell brothers give up the opportunity of promotion with Arbroath to join our basket case of a club to work under Nelms?

[dblair]

5 minutes ago, Abernethy Dee said:

Would personally love to see Dick Campbell given a short term shot at the job, he is a real motivator and has worked miracles with Arbroath and I think he thoroughly deserves a shot at a club like Dundee, and if anybody can sort out John Nelms it will be him! I think he is our best shot at possibly staying in this league.

I think he is far to smart to even contemplate such a move mate.

[Mr Sensible]

4 minutes ago, Abernethy Dee said:

Would personally love to see Dick Campbell given a short term shot at the job, he is a real motivator and has worked miracles with Arbroath and I think he thoroughly deserves a shot at a club like Dundee, and if anybody can sort out John Nelms it will be him! I think he is our best shot at possibly staying in this league.

I thought about this.

DC would turn us down.

Probably the first time in history where a current Arbroath manager would turn down the Dundee job.

Thats how far we have fallen.

[Prince Buster]

7 minutes ago, Mr Sensible said:

I thought about this.

DC would turn us down.

Probably the first time in history where a current Arbroath manager would turn down the Dundee job.

Thats how far we have fallen.

A damning indictment