The Worst Laid Plans

[Napper]

Over the last day or so I've listened to a few podcasts, read the articles, perused the forums and switched on BBC Sportsound. 

A point that has been made in some of the above is. John Nelms has every right to not speak to the media if he wants but, the fans deserve more in the way of communication.. I'm not one who wants an announcement every five minutes. Much of the work behind the scenes has to be confidential. contracts, wages who we are thinking of signing etc. But not even answering letters from fans groups is beyond unforgivable. Long after the Texans have moseyed off into the sunset, the fans will still be here. We were here before them, and we will be here after them. They have a duty of care to the club, their investment and to the humble punters who hand over their hard earned on a regular basis.

It ws obvious a while back that McPake needed to be removed. How Nelms and Strachan have done it, imho, is pretty disgraceful. It looks like they did it behind his back. Nelms calling him like a son and Strachan acting the mentor while at the same time pimping his best for the job, leaves a bad taste. make no mistake, I think McPake should have been binned after the Ross County humping. But basically Nelms and his little mate, had made their mind up, let the transfer window close, and let McPake wander about Dens not realiseg he had a knife in his back and it was just a matter of time before someone pointed it out to him. 

It was also mooted in one of the podcasts or articles that McGhee wasn't first choice. It's claimed Jack Ross turned them down. So we end up with plan B, C or Z. Whichever it is. McGhee's record, in recent years, is fairly underwhelming. No other club in the premiership would have hired him. Now it may come good. I hope it does. Yes, take Strachan's advice. however, look at McGhee's recent record.. not what he did 14 years ago, and ask yourself why McGhee hasn't exactly been beating off clubs who want to hire him with a stick.

This brings me to my point. When the yanks rode into town. It seemed they had a plan. Hartley, was hired and there seemed to be a vision for the future.. Since Hartley went we've been treated to a TV Pundit with no previous management experience ( he seriously should have walked after he kept us up that season, thereby maintaining his legend status) A Dab that was a frigging disaster. Followed by an over promoted youth coach. I can't blame McPake for taking the job. I think it would have been fairer on him if he'd left to manage a club further down the divisions. Got experience and then returned. Now we have McGhee and an assistant that Stockport Country fans are not sad to see the back of. The point I'm trying to make is, they came in with a plan. The plan stuttered, and every management appointment since Hartley has been hard to explain or just a panic hire. The lesson I'm taking from this (and perhaps I've come to this conclusion a tad late) is Nelms is floundering. Look at the lack of due diligence regarding Dodds.. Then there is McGhee's 6 game ban. I'm willing to bet the board weren't aware or, hadn't factored that in before hiring the guy. I actually thought all it meant he can't sit in the dugout. Nope, he can't be in the dressing room for 75 min before the game, he can't do half time talks...and, the real kicker is, he can't communicate with the bench during the game. So, if Rusk is taking training, is on the touchline, is making the substitutions, tactical changes during the game, the question has to be, apart from naming the lineup, WTF will McGhee be actually doing?

This is amateur hour. I really hope it all works out but, FFS, with this sort of leadership. It's hope rather than any certainty.

 

 

 

[Ludo*1]

Agree with all that. Spot on, unfortunately.

[Dondeh]

The presser smacked to me of the top man at the club JN, passing the buck to MMG as quickly as he could.

Absolute dereliction of responsibility and duty imo.

  

 

[DarkBlueKnight]

I’ve passed him a few times and he’s nodded . Never met him . I know others have . Is he perhaps a bit on the shy/ socially awkward side ? He was right - I wanted to here form the manager what his plans were for keeping us up , not on this occasion from nelms . I sound an apologist for him , I’m really not . 

[MacSmith]

17 minutes ago, Napper said:

Over the last day or so I've listened to a few podcasts, read the articles, perused the forums and switched on BBC Sportsound. 

A point that has been made in some of the above is. John Nelms has every right to not speak to the media if he wants but, the fans deserve more in the way of communication.. I'm not one who wants an announcement every five minutes. Much of the work behind the scenes has to be confidential. contracts, wages who we are thinking of signing etc. But not even answering letters from fans groups is beyond unforgivable. Long after the Texans have moseyed off into the sunset, the fans will still be here. We were here before them, and we will be here after them. They have a duty of care to the club, their investment and to the humble punters who hand over their hard earned on a regular basis.

It ws obvious a while back that McPake needed to be removed. How Nelms and Strachan have done it, imho, is pretty disgraceful. It looks like they did it behind his back. Nelms calling him like a son and Strachan acting the mentor while at the same time pimping his best for the job, leaves a bad taste. make no mistake, I think McPake should have been binned after the Ross County humping. But basically Nelms and his little mate, had made their mind up, let the transfer window close, and let McPake wander about Dens not realiseg he had a knife in his back and it was just a matter of time before someone pointed it out to him. 

It was also mooted in one of the podcasts or articles that McGhee wasn't first choice. It's claimed Jack Ross turned them down. So we end up with plan B, C or Z. Whichever it is. McGhee's record, in recent years, is fairly underwhelming. No other club in the premiership would have hired him. Now it may come good. I hope it does. Yes, take Strachan's advice. however, look at McGhee's recent record.. not what he did 14 years ago, and ask yourself why McGhee hasn't exactly been beating off clubs who want to hire him with a stick.

This brings me to my point. When the yanks rode into town. It seemed they had a plan. Hartley, was hired and there seemed to be a vision for the future.. Since Hartley went we've been treated to a TV Pundit with no previous management experience ( he seriously should have walked after he kept us up that season, thereby maintaining his legend status) A Dab that was a frigging disaster. Followed by an over promoted youth coach. I can't blame McPake for taking the job. I think it would have been fairer on him if he'd left to manage a club further down the divisions. Got experience and then returned. Now we have McGhee and an assistant that Stockport Country fans are not sad to see the back of. The point I'm trying to make is, they came in with a plan. The plan stuttered, and every management appointment since Hartley has been hard to explain or just a panic hire. The lesson I'm taking from this (and perhaps I've come to this conclusion a tad late) is Nelms is floundering. Look at the lack of due diligence regarding Dodds.. Then there is McGhee's 6 game ban. I'm willing to bet the board weren't aware or, hadn't factored that in before hiring the guy. I actually thought all it meant he can't sit in the dugout. Nope, he can't be in the dressing room for 75 min before the game, he can't do half time talks...and, the real kicker is, he can't communicate with the bench during the game. So, if Rusk is taking training, is on the touchline, is making the substitutions, tactical changes during the game, the question has to be, apart from naming the lineup, WTF will McGhee be actually doing?

This is amateur hour. I really hope it all works out but, FFS, with this sort of leadership. It's hope rather than any certainty.

 

 

 

There's a few inaccuracies in there. I'm not sifting through them to quote. 

If Nelms had sacked McPake at this stage of the season without an immediate replacement lined up there would have been mayhem and you'd likely be on here criticising him for it. McPake has been very fortunate to have Nelms sticking up for him because he would not have lasted as long elsewhere. Look at Glass for a direct example. McPake knew his job was on the line. He said so himself. Portraying things as McPake wandering about Dens as a naive pawn is a bit ridiculous. 

I'm no fan of Nelms and agree that the lack of communication is very poor, in fact dreadful, but do you honestly think hacks on Sportsound and in the media want the best for Dundee? Or fans at other clubs? It's time to stop feeding these people and get your scarf out. 

Get behind McGhee and Rusk. And Nelms. That's the only way forward. 

[Sebastiano Nela]

11 minutes ago, MacSmith said:

There's a few inaccuracies in there. I'm not sifting through them to quote. 

If Nelms had sacked McPake at this stage of the season without an immediate replacement lined up there would have been mayhem and you'd likely be on here criticising him for it. McPake has been very fortunate to have Nelms sticking up for him because he would not have lasted as long elsewhere. Look at Glass for a direct example. McPake knew his job was on the line. He said so himself. Portraying things as McPake wandering about Dens as a naive pawn is a bit ridiculous. 

I'm no fan of Nelms and agree that the lack of communication is very poor, in fact dreadful, but do you honestly think hacks on Sportsound and in the media want the best for Dundee? Or fans at other clubs? It's time to stop feeding these people and get your scarf out. 

Get behind McGhee and Rusk. And Nelms. That's the only way forward. 

Not once did I see or hear mcpake say that his job was on the line. He was either completely naive in his assessment or putting on a seriously brave face. 

Many on here had been calling him the untouchable for a long time. 

I can't get my head around why they gave him another transfer window. He barely managed to improve the squad and now the new manager is faced with getting more out of the previous managers "mates" 

[BCram]

Get behind our American owners and the new management team. 

There are people who have been advocating change and telling John Nelms to bin McPake from day one. He is now getting pilloried for not doing earlier etc and yet another appointment is rubbished before a ball is kicked. 

I find it disappointing that a website managed and designed by fanatical Dees should be a vehicle for some repetition of posts and information that is coming from people who are not Dees. 

Disappointed but that's probably just me.

[MacSmith]

14 minutes ago, Sebastiano Nela said:

Not once did I see or hear mcpake say that his job was on the line. He was either completely naive in his assessment or putting on a seriously brave face. 

Many on here had been calling him the untouchable for a long time. 

I can't get my head around why they gave him another transfer window. He barely managed to improve the squad and now the new manager is faced with getting more out of the previous managers "mates" 

About 2 weeks ago McPake's interviews definitely took a turn in the way he was speaking. He knew his job was under threat. He had never admitted that much previously. 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-fc/2990403/dundee-boss-james-mcpake-admits-his-job-is-on-the-line-as-he-talks-manager-pressure-at-the-minute-im-not-getting-results/

Apologies it's the Courier but it was one of a few interviews on the radio and press that he gave with a similar vibe. 

He got the window because the squad had to be improved and as a last chance to see if he could get the results he needed. Practically everyone was saying he needed 7 points from the games vs Livi, St. Johnstone and Ross County. He got 1 point.

[Napper]

25 minutes ago, MacSmith said:

There's a few inaccuracies in there. I'm not sifting through them to quote. 

If Nelms had sacked McPake at this stage of the season without an immediate replacement lined up there would have been mayhem and you'd likely be on here criticising him for it. McPake has been very fortunate to have Nelms sticking up for him because he would not have lasted as long elsewhere. Look at Glass for a direct example. McPake knew his job was on the line. He said so himself. Portraying things as McPake wandering about Dens as a naive pawn is a bit ridiculous. 

I'm no fan of Nelms and agree that the lack of communication is very poor, in fact dreadful, but do you honestly think hacks on Sportsound and in the media want the best for Dundee? Or fans at other clubs? It's time to stop feeding these people and get your scarf out. 

Get behind McGhee and Rusk. And Nelms. That's the only way forward. 

thanks for your input.. 

1. I'm willing to accept there may be inaccuracies in what I wrote. I don't have any inside contacts at Dens. I just have to make up my mind, and form my opinions, by what is reported and, what is said by the people concerned. you didn't actually point out what I'd gotten wrong though.

2. do me a favour and don't second guess my reaction if McPake had binned without an immediate replacement. In fact, when he was sacked, there was a lot of conjecture on here about who may be next one through the door. A lot of people guessed that, by the way it happened, that they must have someone lined up. I can't find any posts (especially by me) saying it'll eb a disgrace if they sacked him with no one already contacted. I could be wrong tho'

3. I'm sure there are people in the media who hate the club, some who have some fondness for the place and others who don't give a f**k either way. I actually didn't say anything about their preferences. credit me with some intelligence where I can listen to pundits and work out what their agenda may or may not be.

4. In what way do you think my opinions are feeding the media hacks? What a ridiculous statement. This is a fans forum. It's all about speculation, banter and opinion. 

5. I understand that what we have right now in charge at Dens is the only way forward. As I said in my original piece. I hope it works out.. I have my doubts and I'm entitled to express them. I wish McGhee and Rusk all the best. But I'll hold off the hero worship until they actually prove they can do the job. I'm not a happy clapper.. neither am I a constant critic.. just call me , at the moment, an unhappy clapper who is entitled to his opinion.

[MacSmith]

1 minute ago, Napper said:

thanks for your input.. 

1. I'm willing to accept there may be inaccuracies in what I wrote. I don't have any inside contacts at Dens. I just have to make up my mind, and form my opinions, by what is reported and, what is said by the people concerned. you didn't actually point out what I'd gotten wrong though.

2. do me a favour and don't second guess my reaction if McPake had binned without an immediate replacement. In fact, when he was sacked, there was a lot of conjecture on here about who may be next one through the door. A lot of people guessed that, by the way it happened, that they must have someone lined up. I can't find any posts (especially by me) saying it'll eb a disgrace if they sacked him with no one already contacted. I could be wrong tho'

3. I'm sure there are people in the media who hate the club, some who have some fondness for the place and others who don't give a f**k either way. I actually didn't say anything about their preferences. credit me with some intelligence where I can listen to pundits and work out what their agenda may or may not be.

4. In what way do you think my opinions are feeding the media hacks? What a ridiculous statement. This is a fans forum. It's all about speculation, banter and opinion. 

5. I understand that what we have right now in charge at Dens is the only way forward. As I said in my original piece. I hope it works out.. I have my doubts and I'm entitled to express them. I wish McGhee and Rusk all the best. But I'll hold off the hero worship until they actually prove they can do the job. I'm not a happy clapper.. neither am I a constant critic.. just call me , at the moment, an unhappy clapper who is entitled to his opinion.

I disagree with a lot of what you've said, but we both agree on wishing McGhee and Rusk all the best.  Let's leave it at that. 

[Napper]

Just now, MacSmith said:

I disagree with a lot of what you've said, but we both agree on wishing McGhee and Rusk all the best.  Let's leave it at that. 

Fair enough mate.. we all want the best for DFC. 

[BCram]

2 minutes ago, Napper said:

thanks for your input.. 

1. I'm willing to accept there may be inaccuracies in what I wrote. I don't have any inside contacts at Dens. I just have to make up my mind, and form my opinions, by what is reported and, what is said by the people concerned. you didn't actually point out what I'd gotten wrong though.

2. do me a favour and don't second guess my reaction if McPake had binned without an immediate replacement. In fact, when he was sacked, there was a lot of conjecture on here about who may be next one through the door. A lot of people guessed that, by the way it happened, that they must have someone lined up. I can't find any posts (especially by me) saying it'll eb a disgrace if they sacked him with no one already contacted. I could be wrong tho'

3. I'm sure there are people in the media who hate the club, some who have some fondness for the place and others who don't give a f**k either way. I actually didn't say anything about their preferences. credit me with some intelligence where I can listen to pundits and work out what their agenda may or may not be.

4. In what way do you think my opinions are feeding the media hacks? What a ridiculous statement. This is a fans forum. It's all about speculation, banter and opinion. 

5. I understand that what we have right now in charge at Dens is the only way forward. As I said in my original piece. I hope it works out.. I have my doubts and I'm entitled to express them. I wish McGhee and Rusk all the best. But I'll hold off the hero worship until they actually prove they can do the job. I'm not a happy clapper.. neither am I a constant critic.. just call me , at the moment, an unhappy clapper who is entitled to his opinion.

Fair enough Napper. It is about opinions and I think at the moment we need to try to  band together. 

Unhappy Clappers Together!