Do we have a referee

[BCram]

Who regularly watches our games and supports our club. The poll for referees on this website seems regularly to imply that at best the referee was poor and at worst was playing for the opposition. I wonder if we have any former referee who might be able to give a short summary of how the ref performed, a bit like a match report but based on the performance of the referee.

[Prince Buster]

I used to be a qualified referee, but not at the top level. I refereed at levels above where I'd played but I only ever played at a pretty low level because I never was a footballer.

I actually used to get very 'upset' with the referees we see in Scotland but it was affecting my health so now I just sit down and accept it. The biggest problem is that they mostly haven't played at a decent level and have no idea about how a player can commit a foul at the top level without seeming to have committed that foul - it's easier to see from the stands than it is at pitch level where there's a lot going on.

There was a part time professional player who played for RAF Turnhouse (part of the deal with the RAF that allowed him to play professionally was that he had to play for his station), name escapes me but he played for Meadowbank and East Fife that I know of, and the difference in what he could do and what he knew was massive when playing against the likes of other RAF Stations or The Marines / Navy teams all of whom were actually decent sides. He told me once he was only playing at half capacity, often not even that, and was holding back on challenges and the like to avoid injury.

I could have gone on and rose through the ranks and could possibly have ended up getting professional games if I'd been so inclined - a guy that could barely play the game could have been refereeing the game at a senior level. That's part of the problem, where do these referees come from?

[Reverend Lovejoy]

2 hours ago, BCram said:

Who regularly watches our games and supports our club. The poll for referees on this website seems regularly to imply that at best the referee was poor and at worst was playing for the opposition. I wonder if we have any former referee who might be able to give a short summary of how the ref performed, a bit like a match report but based on the performance of the referee.

Bob Valentine is a Dee and watches us regularly.

A guy I worked with was a referee's supervisor before coming to work for the club upon retirement. I've not seen him at Dens for a bit but he does watch us.

[BCram]

1 hour ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Bob Valentine is a Dee and watches us regularly.

A guy I worked with was a referee's supervisor before coming to work for the club upon retirement. I've not seen him at Dens for a bit but he does watch us.

I'd just like to see a "fair" assessment of how the referee performed. I know I am biased in favour of DFC but it seems to me we don't have a clue about stopping play in our opponents half or playing to the ref. At in point against ICT we had 2 yellow cards and had only committed 4 fouls. ICT had 9 fouls and 1 yellow. There must be something that we are doing wrong and I think it has been a long term flaw in our play.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

13 minutes ago, BCram said:

I'd just like to see a "fair" assessment of how the referee performed. I know I am biased in favour of DFC but it seems to me we don't have a clue about stopping play in our opponents half or playing to the ref. At in point against ICT we had 2 yellow cards and had only committed 4 fouls. ICT had 9 fouls and 1 yellow. There must be something that we are doing wrong and I think it has been a long term flaw in our play.

I'll be honest and say that professional fouls are a bit of a fine art imo, a bit like tackling. In my time watching the Dee Jim Duffy stood out as someone who was brilliant at tackling but someone like Bobby Glennie would just blooter everything. Somebody like Max Anderson wants to stop play but often leaves too much on it and picks up cards. The top foreigners have been at it for years and have perfected the art of professional fouling. It's kind of cheating and very frustrating but a big part of the modern game and maybe something we should practice more.

[Blue4evr]

33 minutes ago, BCram said:

I'd just like to see a "fair" assessment of how the referee performed. I know I am biased in favour of DFC but it seems to me we don't have a clue about stopping play in our opponents half or playing to the ref. At in point against ICT we had 2 yellow cards and had only committed 4 fouls. ICT had 9 fouls and 1 yellow. There must be something that we are doing wrong and I think it has been a long term flaw in our play.

Probably we are biased but we do seem to come off worse even reserve games. Last week Fin grabbed a boy's shirt and was rightly booked. Shortly after someone did a late challenge on him, which forced him off with a foot injury. A while later Sheridan was going through and a defender grabbed him by both shoulders to bring him down. Ref gave them both a telling off but nothing else.

[BCram]

20 minutes ago, Blue4evr said:

Probably we are biased but we do seem to come off worse even reserve games. Last week Fin grabbed a boy's shirt and was rightly booked. Shortly after someone did a late challenge on him, which forced him off with a foot injury. A while later Sheridan was going through and a defender grabbed him by both shoulders to bring him down. Ref gave them both a telling off but nothing else.

I think these are clear examples of the sort of negative image our club has in official circles. I had hoped when John Nelms was on the SFA board that we might actually be improving our relationship with officialdom but the lost email and the change of mind blew that up. 

We need to try to be one of the good guys imo. Getting on referee advisors to teach our players what refs think are fair but strong tackles could be a way of shifting referee opinion.

 

[Harold Finch]

Part of the problem with the referee on Saturday was his positioning on the pitch, he never seemed to have his angles right, referees are taught how to position themselves on the diagonal so they have a clear view of what's happening rather than an obstructed view when you're caught behind a player. This also helps them to not get caught up in the play and get in the way of players or the ball.

If there was an observer at the game on Saturday then they will have picked him up on that.

Add in the poor communication between the whole team of officials then you can see how the game got away from them.

Unfortunately when you're in the lower leagues it's where referees learn from their mistakes.

 

[OCDee]

5 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Bob Valentine is a Dee and watches us regularly.

A guy I worked with was a referee's supervisor before coming to work for the club upon retirement. I've not seen him at Dens for a bit but he does watch us.

You learn something new every day. I always thought he was a dabbie.

[Prince Buster]

6 hours ago, OCDee said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought he was a dabbie.

He trained with United when he was refereeing, not certain he's a Dundee fan either. He used to sit in the Director's box at Dens but I'm pretty sure that was as a referee supervisor.

[chomp my root]

13 hours ago, Prince Buster said:

I used to be a qualified referee, but not at the top level. I refereed at levels above where I'd played but I only ever played at a pretty low level because I never was a footballer.

I actually used to get very 'upset' with the referees we see in Scotland but it was affecting my health so now I just sit down and accept it. The biggest problem is that they mostly haven't played at a decent level and have no idea about how a player can commit a foul at the top level without seeming to have committed that foul - it's easier to see from the stands than it is at pitch level where there's a lot going on.

There was a part time professional player who played for RAF Turnhouse (part of the deal with the RAF that allowed him to play professionally was that he had to play for his station), name escapes me but he played for Meadowbank and East Fife that I know of, and the difference in what he could do and what he knew was massive when playing against the likes of other RAF Stations or The Marines / Navy teams all of whom were actually decent sides. He told me once he was only playing at half capacity, often not even that, and was holding back on challenges and the like to avoid injury.

I could have gone on and rose through the ranks and could possibly have ended up getting professional games if I'd been so inclined - a guy that could barely play the game could have been refereeing the game at a senior level. That's part of the problem, where do these referees come from?

If this was late 80's/early 90's then I'm sure his surname was Wilson (maybe Kevin ????). He made the 'goal of the month' competition one time when at East Fife. 

[Reverend Lovejoy]

8 hours ago, OCDee said:

You learn something new every day. I always thought he was a dabbie.

 

1 hour ago, Prince Buster said:

He trained with United when he was refereeing, not certain he's a Dundee fan either. He used to sit in the Director's box at Dens but I'm pretty sure that was as a referee supervisor.

Almost certain that he's a Dee, 99.99% sure anyway.

Yes he was a referees supervisor.

Saw him leaving Dens after one of our games recently.