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Ludo*1

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7 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Game to game, I'll absolutely criticise (and praise!) individuals and the manager. That's just the nature of being a supporter but I think context is important. I've read over the past 24 hours that people seem to think that people (and it might not be directed at me but I'm making a general point in any case) have 'turned' against the manager or are writing individuals off already. I don't think that's the case. I want to make it clear that I think Docherty has built the best team we've had since at least Hartley's top 6 side, but possibly even before that. His signings have largely been extremely impressive and the absolute bigger picture is all about survival. As football fans, we might get carried away and dream of a top 6 finish or European football, but the only standard that Docherty needs to match this season is keeping us up.

I thought it was worthwhile to do a little comparison to where Kilmarnock were this time last season:

10th: Kilmarnock - P19 W5 D4 L10 Goals Scored: 17 Goals Conceded:33 GD: -16 PTS: 19

Compared to us:

7th: Dundee - P19 W5 D7 L7 Goals Scored: 24 Goals Conceded: 31 PTS: 22

Important to note that we have games in hand (up to 3) on most sides in the league with only Aberdeen having played fewer.

We're currently 10 points clear of Livingston in bottom, with 2 games in hand. Kilmarnock were 4 points clear having played the same games. 

It's gonna be tight for that 11th place spot and it's absolutely not a negative to say we're in a relegation battle because that's where we should be but Docherty is outperforming McInnes on all metrics despite having less time in the job. The building blocks are there and I'm super excited going forward under his management. That doesn't change the fact that myself and others will have a heads gone when throwing away a 2 goal lead, but please don't think that's anyone turning against him or getting the pitchforks out or even just wanting to be negative for negative sake, because in the cold light of day, I don't think there's a Dee fan out there that doesn't think we've had a brilliant season thus far and long may it continue!

We're in the best spot we've been in decades - the building blocks that Docherty is laying is clear to see and there'll be many, many more bumps in the road.

It usually takes 10 wins to guarantee survival in this league and we're exactly where we should be win wise and more than ahead of where we should be draw wise!

Great post.


Was thinking along similar lines this morning (after I'd calmed down ha ha) regarding Killie last year. 

One thing I would add is we don't want to fall into a rut of too many losses. It's important to get some of kind of result on Saturday.

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The throwing the lead away thing is annoying but tbh fighting a lot of defensive issues and still haven't lost two league games on the bounce yet. Realistically, even if we go on and finish really strongly, we were always going to have a really rough period.

Quite hopeful we'll be a different proposition when we get 2 or 3 back fit and the new guys bed in, been a very tough month.

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I still think we will finish the season in 9th/10th place, that will be a success as we have avoided relegation and the play off places. Aberdeen will probably finish above us, Levien looks to have turned St Johnstone around, Motherwell  can go either way depending on how their January goes. I expect Livingston to finish bottom with Ross County 11th.

I have a few concerns with Docherty, some of them probably me overthinking what happens at Dens.

The five points we have lost from 2-0 up in games (Saints away and last night) concerns me as they points will be crucial at the end of the season. 

We rarely look comfortable when leading yet other teams take the lead against us and look like adding more with every attack.

Recruitment, every manager will blame the previous regime and players that they inherited, but we still don't have a back up keeper, a defence that can adapt to playing as a back four, a dominant midfielder, or a striker that is going to score fifteen goals a season. We seemed to be pinning our hopes this season on Owen Beck.

I have a fear that Docherty played his best hand at the start of the season and he is now struggling to bring in better players, a bit like Hartley after Stewart and Hemmings left. This will sound harsh but none of Docherty's signings are players that will put bums on seats at Dens.

I wonder what the tie up with Burnley means for our first team, will Docherty be forced into a position where on loan Burnley kids are getting places in the first team squad at the expense of Dundee players

On the bright side, we have put in some decent performances this season, Shaugnessey has been a stand out in defence, his goals may well be season changing, the team are playing for the manager, we are still clear of the play off places and there is still a general feeling of positivity towards Docherty and the team.......but cracks are starting to show.

I suppose it's just life as a Dee......let's give Livingston a doing on Saturday and start looking up the table again.

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Harold Finch said:

I still think we will finish the season in 9th/10th place, that will be a success as we have avoided relegation and the play off places. Aberdeen will probably finish above us, Levien looks to have turned St Johnstone around, Motherwell  can go either way depending on how their January goes. I expect Livingston to finish bottom with Ross County 11th.

I have a few concerns with Docherty, some of them probably me overthinking what happens at Dens.

The five points we have lost from 2-0 up in games (Saints away and last night) concerns me as they points will be crucial at the end of the season. 

We rarely look comfortable when leading yet other teams take the lead against us and look like adding more with every attack.

Recruitment, every manager will blame the previous regime and players that they inherited, but we still don't have a back up keeper, a defence that can adapt to playing as a back four, a dominant midfielder, or a striker that is going to score fifteen goals a season. We seemed to be pinning our hopes this season on Owen Beck.

I have a fear that Docherty played his best hand at the start of the season and he is now struggling to bring in better players, a bit like Hartley after Stewart and Hemmings left. This will sound harsh but none of Docherty's signings are players that will put bums on seats at Dens.

I wonder what the tie up with Burnley means for our first team, will Docherty be forced into a position where on loan Burnley kids are getting places in the first team squad at the expense of Dundee players

On the bright side, we have put in some decent performances this season, Shaugnessey has been a stand out in defence, his goals may well be season changing, the team are playing for the manager, we are still clear of the play off places and there is still a general feeling of positivity towards Docherty and the team.......but cracks are starting to show.

I suppose it's just life as a Dee......let's give Livingston a doing on Saturday and start looking up the table again.

 

 

 

It's all sensible stuff above again Harold...

And to be honest, not just from yourself, but from most posts/responses, following last night's Tragic Result.

There is no doubt all of us were shocked/disappointed losing a two goal lead. But we're restrained & resilient.

It is not surprising, manager & coaching team & players are being asked questions. But I still have the faith :wub:

All eyes will be on Livie Game now. A win or defeat is not gonna decide everything !! But I want 3 Points:chaplin:

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1 hour ago, Harold Finch said:

I still think we will finish the season in 9th/10th place, that will be a success as we have avoided relegation and the play off places. Aberdeen will probably finish above us, Levien looks to have turned St Johnstone around, Motherwell  can go either way depending on how their January goes. I expect Livingston to finish bottom with Ross County 11th.

I have a few concerns with Docherty, some of them probably me overthinking what happens at Dens.

The five points we have lost from 2-0 up in games (Saints away and last night) concerns me as they points will be crucial at the end of the season. 

We rarely look comfortable when leading yet other teams take the lead against us and look like adding more with every attack.

Recruitment, every manager will blame the previous regime and players that they inherited, but we still don't have a back up keeper, a defence that can adapt to playing as a back four, a dominant midfielder, or a striker that is going to score fifteen goals a season. We seemed to be pinning our hopes this season on Owen Beck.

I have a fear that Docherty played his best hand at the start of the season and he is now struggling to bring in better players, a bit like Hartley after Stewart and Hemmings left. This will sound harsh but none of Docherty's signings are players that will put bums on seats at Dens.

I wonder what the tie up with Burnley means for our first team, will Docherty be forced into a position where on loan Burnley kids are getting places in the first team squad at the expense of Dundee players

On the bright side, we have put in some decent performances this season, Shaugnessey has been a stand out in defence, his goals may well be season changing, the team are playing for the manager, we are still clear of the play off places and there is still a general feeling of positivity towards Docherty and the team.......but cracks are starting to show.

I suppose it's just life as a Dee......let's give Livingston a doing on Saturday and start looking up the table again.

 

100 Agree with this.

 

 

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While I agree with the very good level headed posts above I read on BBC’s website after Tues game that we have unfortunately lost 14 points from winning  positions in league and that is by far the worst in league!

That is why we all feel had kick in the nuts!

If only we could have got a victory when we were 7th and we are looking down not up!

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20 hours ago, gedee said:

It's all sensible stuff above again Harold...

And to be honest, not just from yourself, but from most posts/responses, following last night's Tragic Result.

There is no doubt all of us were shocked/disappointed losing a two goal lead. But we're restrained & resilient.

It is not surprising, manager & coaching team & players are being asked questions. But I still have the faith :wub:

All eyes will be on Livie Game now. A win or defeat is not gonna decide everything !! But I want 3 Points:chaplin:

It's no surprise we have lost 6 goals in the last 2 games with Ashcroft back in team.Back 3 very slow and poor wing backs allowed Hearts to get cross after crowd into the box.

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2 hours ago, Bobby123 said:

It's no surprise we have lost 6 goals in the last 2 games with Ashcroft back in team.Back 3 very slow and poor wing backs allowed Hearts to get cross after crowd into the box.

Maybe it’s nothing to do with Ashcroft, but the fact we’re without Lamie and Portales

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Old firm games aside I think we have been competitive in the majority of games we have played. 
 

Livi on Saturday is massive, must not get beat is what I say, Livi will target this game as crucial.

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1 minute ago, BigG said:

Old firm games aside I think we have been competitive in the majority of games we have played. 
 

Livi on Saturday is massive, must not get beat is what I say, Livi will target this game as crucial.

Hi BigG, I try as much as possible, to avoid the prediction/forecast stuff (The jinx factor concerns me) :chin:

But I totally agree this is one game that's come along at a crucial time for DarkBlues. 3 Points Please:chaplin:

C'MON THE MIGHTY DEEE... LET'S GET RIGHT BACK ON TRACK....YOU CAN...AND WILL DO IT LADS :excited:

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