Stadium Latest.

[Prince Buster]

5 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

The new place isn't offering 'a load of free parking' though Fez, there are only 100 spaces included in the plans which will be used predominantly by players and officials. There will be coach parking for away fans on the old Liff Road and non-residential parking on a first come, first served basis in the industrial estates. Public transport from the City Centre serves the areas surrounding Campy, North, South, East and West. Those that frequent pubs in the town can easily get a bus from the various options available and likewise the Hilltown area. It's a short walk from the terminus in Dryburgh and there are stops in Ardler which are probably closer. With housing included in the plans there will be a bus service directly into the site too at some point. 

Also opportunities for the more entrepenureal types to open pubs nearby. A pub serving food on Dryburgh Industrial Estate might see good business all week and can adapt to football fans, including a seperate area for visiting fans, on match days.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

1 minute ago, Big Fez said:

There's just soooo much on the whole setup that is basically 100% dependent on JN going 'trust us'. And again, there were legal obstacles that could have stopped them shafting us and they've whittled them away one at a time. Shareholdings. Buying Dens. So it's now completely open to them to shaft us and there is nothing we could do. They don't need us at all. The club has zero financial value to them except as a way to get this project done. The more expensive the project gets the less profit they can make, the more chance they have to squeeze the club with onerous terms in order to get a good price for the development.

I think squeezing us too tight financially benefits no-one as if things go tits up for us they don't get any rent plus the other parts of the venture that are reliant upon us and match day punters cease to exist and lose them revenue too. IF the stadium is built the terms need to be manageable, it's the IF that concerns me though. The development (minus the stadium) makes them enough I'd guess with the stadium providing a wee bit more than pocket change but over 100 years or something. There are loads of revenue streams for them that'll maybe not make them an instant fortune but they'll be slow burners that add to the prize pot slow but sure. Nelms shareholding with 71 Brewing will make him a few bob on match day, at concerts and in the on-site hotel for example. 

[Big Fez]

8 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

The new place isn't offering 'a load of free parking' though Fez, there are only 100 spaces included in the plans

The 100 new places is a red herring i think. There's already a massive free car park on site at ice arena

[Prince Buster]

5 minutes ago, Big Fez said:

The 100 new places is a red herring i think. There's already a massive free car park on site at ice arena

So, the new car park proposed adds only 100 private / restricted spaces to the existing public spaces? Worth noting that the slip road only provides access to the 100 spaces and not to the existing spaces.

[Double Blue]

6 minutes ago, Big Fez said:

The 100 new places is a red herring i think. There's already a massive free car park on site at ice arena

On an ice hockey night with approx 2000 fans those parking spaces, which are also used by those at the cinema, are quickly snapped up and cars are parked on the entrance roads into the complex and entrance to Camperdown Park. Others also park in Dryburgh and up towards Ardler.

[Big Fez]

Just now, Prince Buster said:

So, the new car park proposed adds only 100 private / restricted spaces to the existing public spaces? Worth noting that the slip road only provides access to the 100 spaces and not to the existing spaces.

Look, i'm conscious I've posted about a million words today so I'm quite keen to just get on with my life. I'm sure you are too. But here's what the club are telling transport scotland about the new junction:
 

Quote

The information provided confirms that all components of the proposed development, except for the residential units, intend to utilise the proposed A90(T) junction. This equates to the following estimated volume of trips using the proposed A90(T) junction:

- Non-match weekday: 1,948 two-way vehicle movements

- Weekday evening match: 3,129 two-way vehicle movements

- Weekend match: 1,766 two-way vehicle movements

Note, these volumes have not been audited, and are not agreed at the time of writing this response.

 

[Reverend Lovejoy]

21 minutes ago, Big Fez said:

The 100 new places is a red herring i think. There's already a massive free car park on site at ice arena

I don't think it's a red herring, they've already said that it's not supporter parking and will likely be 'manned' similar to the parking areas at Dens Rd school and Gussie Park. I don't see the benefits in pretending that there will be parking for the players and officials. I'm sceptical as to whether they'll actually build a new stadium but not whether that proposed new stadium will have a small amount of allocated parking.

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

2 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

We already don't own our ground Fez and haven't done for a number of years. We've paid a rent and/or an annual upkeep cost. The new place won't have particularly high upkeep costs, in comparison to Dens, and we'll continue to, or go back to, paying a rent/mortgage but over a much longer term. Maybe the owners will set a high rate and we won't be in a position to keep up the payments but I don't see who benefits from that. Where I do have concerns though is over the plans to build the rest of the development before the stadium. They wouldn't be the first developer's to run out of cash once the bits that are gonna make them money are built.

Would it not be stadium first as they have a guaranteed tenant

[Reverend Lovejoy]

16 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

Would it not be stadium first as they have a guaranteed tenant

They're on record as saying that the stadium will be the last thing to be built, they've been clear on that.

[observer1]

As an unbiased observer on the Forum can I just say it's a pleasant change to see Big Fez join the debate with well thought out posts and the absence of  throwing abuse for the sake of it at the Council, Transport Scotland, Arabs and everyone and anyone due to the understandable frustration at the delays. 

He lays out important if sometimes unpalatable facts. For example many Dees do think the club will own the stadium,  "we'll have a new stadium", actually no unfortunately we won't. 

These unpalatable opinions are worth noting because I think he's right. If there was a stark choice between recouping football losses and expenditure so far, maximising exit profit, OR doing the best thing for Dundee FC I think I know what they would do.

I have feared for some time that the endgame might be the removal of the stadium from the the project in order for it to go ahead. Then where are are we. 

Lastly, I think the groundshare debate is a red herring, I just can't see them being interested.

[Daniel Watson]

2 hours ago, Big Fez said:

There's just soooo much on the whole setup that is basically 100% dependent on JN going 'trust us'. And again, there were legal obstacles that could have stopped them shafting us and they've whittled them away one at a time. Shareholdings. Buying Dens. So it's now completely open to them to shaft us and there is nothing we could do. They don't need us at all. The club has zero financial value to them except as a way to get this project done. The more expensive the project gets the less profit they can make, the more chance they have to squeeze the club with onerous terms in order to get a good price for the development.

DBPH currently own the land at Campy and Dens. They have stated that they wish to develop both sites, although their plans for the Dens site have not been published to the best of my knowledge. DBPH seem to have only two options either develop the sites or sell to another developer. After the current fiasco I can only imagine the obstacles TS and DCC will put in their way of developing the Dens site. If the promised inward investment falls through due to the councils intransigence, the SNP are going to have some difficult questions to answer at next years elections.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Watson said:

DBPH currently own the land at Campy and Dens. They have stated that they wish to develop both sites, although their plans for the Dens site have not been published to the best of my knowledge. DBPH seem to have only two options either develop the sites or sell to another developer. After the current fiasco I can only imagine the obstacles TS and DCC will put in their way of developing the Dens site. If the promised inward investment falls through due to the councils intransigence, the SNP are going to have some difficult questions to answer at next years elections.

Dens will likely be used for housing so I can't see any issues there, not from TS anyway.