Mr Sensible Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Sadly, because the SPFL have decided upon that split, and because prize money (and indeed gate money) is affected due to that split, then it IS seen as a measure of success. In no way denying it's a ridiculous state of affairs, but it's wrong to say it's not a 'measure' of success - that measurement is easily made in the additional income after the split. The problem is you might only play two home games after the split and could be against an inverness and the other a dead rubber against aberdeen celtic.... Yes you do get slightly higher prize money not sure what the difference between 6th and 7th,but nothing compared to a cup win or even a good cup run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCovenant Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 The problem is you might only play two home games after the split and could be against an inverness and the other a dead rubber against aberdeen celtic.... Yes you do get slightly higher prize money not sure what the difference between 6th and 7th,but nothing compared to a cup win or even a good cup run. But you still get a cut of the gate from a club with (theoretically) a larger support than those in the bottom six. Yes - you do get higher prize money (part of the point) And yes, the cup runs also help.... but that has no bearing on the top six split. In essence, BOTH are measures of success. It all comes down to which any single indiovidual sees as a higher measure. Is winning a cup a better measure of success than winning the league? Probably not. (Although it may be to some?) What about coming Second? Third? (you see the point, yeah?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sensible Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 But you still get a cut of the gate from a club with (theoretically) a larger support than those in the bottom six. Yes - you do get higher prize money (part of the point) And yes, the cup runs also help.... but that has no bearing on the top six split. In essence, BOTH are measures of success. It all comes down to which any single indiovidual sees as a higher measure. Is winning a cup a better measure of success than winning the league? Probably not. (Although it may be to some?) What about coming Second? Third? (you see the point, yeah?) Winning trophies is what its all about Id take a cup win this season over finishing 2nd to celtic all day long.....as would every club in scotland.... The top6 really means very little to me But this clamour like its some sort of achievement to finish 6th out of 12 is baffling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 But you still get a cut of the gate from a club with (theoretically) a larger support than those in the bottom six. Yes - you do get higher prize money (part of the point) And yes, the cup runs also help.... but that has no bearing on the top six split. In essence, BOTH are measures of success. It all comes down to which any single indiovidual sees as a higher measure. Is winning a cup a better measure of success than winning the league? Probably not. (Although it may be to some?) What about coming Second? Third? (you see the point, yeah?) League position is a measure of success without doubt. Last years top 6 finish is to be applauded. In 50 years will we release a commemorative strip to hail the legends that took us on that never to be forgotten journey of taking five at Celtic? No we won't. Top six was a burst flush last year anyway as we were "too tired" apparently and these results are not statically significant according to some. Trophy wins make legends, that's the bottom line. therefore give me 10th place and a trophy, I'd bite your hand off to your elbow for that. Maybe if you are fighting it out for the league then the league cup takes a back stage but for us it's one of the only things we could ever win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCovenant Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Winning trophies is what its all about Id take a cup win this season over finishing 2nd to celtic all day long.....as would every club in scotland.... The top6 really means very little to me But this clamour like its some sort of achievement to finish 6th out of 12 is baffling Deliberately missing the point? Or just not understanding it? We're discussing what defines a "measure of success." Not whether cup wins are *better* than a league placing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCovenant Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 League position is a measure of success without doubt. Last years top 6 finish is to be applauded. In 50 years will we release a commemorative strip to hail the legends that took us on that never to be forgotten journey of taking five at Celtic? No we won't. Top six was a burst flush last year anyway as we were "too tired" apparently and these results are not statically significant according to some. Trophy wins make legends, that's the bottom line. therefore give me 10th place and a trophy, I'd bite your hand off to your elbow for that. Maybe if you are fighting it out for the league then the league cup takes a back stage but for us it's one of the only things we could ever win. The first line says it all, Ivan. And it is, after all, the topic of discussion Absolutely trophies make legends... but is that a "measure of success"? Personally, as I said, they *both* are... but for different reasons (probably different definitions of *measure of success*.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 The first line says it all, Ivan. And it is, after all, the topic of discussion Absolutely trophies make legends... but is that a "measure of success"? Personally, as I said, they *both* are... but for different reasons (probably different definitions of *measure of success*.) Look at calderwood at dons though Joe Persistently did well in league but his reign was never as popular as it should be because he never won anything. In Scotland this ridiculous split gives us a totally arbitrary measure of success. Yes We finished top 6 however in reality we finished mid table and there is little or no difference between that and a 7th place. Unless you win the league then I would bet that a majority of fans would choose a cup win over a 2nd or third place finish. I simply do not understand this mentality of downplaying the cups by fans of a club like dfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastiano Nela Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Look at calderwood at dons though Joe Persistently did well in league but his reign was never as popular as it should be because he never won anything. In Scotland this ridiculous split gives us a totally arbitrary measure of success. Yes We finished top 6 however in reality we finished mid table and there is little or no difference between that and a 7th place. Unless you win the league then I would bet that a majority of fans would choose a cup win over a 2nd or third place finish. I simply do not understand this mentality of downplaying the cups by fans of a club like dfc Had a big budget at the sheep as well Ivan. And achieved not a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Had a big budget at the sheep as well Ivan. And achieved not a lot. Did get them out of group stages in Europa to be fair though Seb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sensible Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Deliberately missing the point? Or just not understanding it? We're discussing what defines a "measure of success." Not whether cup wins are *better* than a league placing. If you bother to read the original poster he said he didnt rate the league cup,called it a diddy cup i think... My message to him not you was that id take a cup win over finishing 2nd everytime..... Not sure who is discussing what is a measure of success but its certinlay not me.... Cup wins over top 6 top5 even 2nd place everyday of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCovenant Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Look at calderwood at dons though Joe Persistently did well in league but his reign was never as popular as it should be because he never won anything. In Scotland this ridiculous split gives us a totally arbitrary measure of success. Yes We finished top 6 however in reality we finished mid table and there is little or no difference between that and a 7th place. Unless you win the league then I would bet that a majority of fans would choose a cup win over a 2nd or third place finish. I simply do not understand this mentality of downplaying the cups by fans of a club like dfc Oh I'm with you all the way with that, Ivan. I said it above - a cup is a measure of success. But so is a top six finish, as is a top five... The point I'm making is that it's *all* arbitrary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCovenant Posted 27 August 2015 Report Share Posted 27 August 2015 Cup wins over top 6 top5 even 2nd place everyday of the week. ...to you. Personally I think a top 2 spot would bring in FAR more financially than a cup. and thus... financially it would be a greater measure of success.... On a personal level (and using a seperate measure of success) I'd find it hard given the choice of only one. S'been a long time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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